Canaanite Psalms

[MaxVel]

For the sarcastically impaired the following is said in jest

Wow guys, I think you broke him.

No, his pride broke him.

In his mind he's better, and smarter, and better informed, than us ignorant and benighted Christians, and he can't cope with the reality that, uh, actually he's not.

[shunyadragon]

It's actually a sign that you've goofed when you're reduced to such lack of substance.

Please don't forget to add Adrift, Cerebrum123, Boxing Pythagoras and Pancreasman to your 'stooges' list....

Those who cling to ancient paradigms in black and white mythical worlds of 'Truth' in believe or die debating, cannot remotely be expected to understand the 'learning' intellectual exercise of contrary debating to explore alternative beliefs and ideas. Anyone who has taken serious college level courses in the Philosophy of Debating would understand.

[shunyadragon]

I don't cling to ... whatever. I'm a new age liberal, baby. All I see here is a self confessed liar. Once you confess to lying any post you make from then on is suspect. Not that they weren't already.

Those who cling to ancient paradigms in black and white mythical worlds of 'Truth' in believe or die debating, cannot remotely be expected to understand the 'learning' intellectual exercise of contrary debating to explore alternative beliefs and ideas. Anyone who has taken serious college level courses in the Philosophy of Debating would understand.

[shunyadragon]

For the sarcastically impaired the following is said in jest

Wow guys, I think you broke him.

. . . and Napoleon won the Battle of Waterloo

[Adrift]

It's actually a sign that you've goofed when you're reduced to such lack of substance.

Please don't forget to add Adrift, Cerebrum123, Boxing Pythagoras and Pancreasman to your 'stooges' list....

Heck yeah, The Stooges are one of my favorite bands!



I wanna be Iggy,

[Boxing Pythagoras]

Anyone who has taken serious college level courses in the Philosophy of Debating would understand.

Now that he's said this for the third time, I can't help but nitpick.

Has anyone ever actually seen any university that offers courses in the "Philosophy of Debating?" I mean, sure, I've seen courses on epistemology or logic, but I've never heard of a course focused on the Philosophy of Debate; and while I have had several philosophy professors who encourage playing Devil's Advocate as an exercise, I've never seen it listed on a curriculum as a serious area of study. I've checked out the websites for Yale, Harvard, Princeton, and Stanford, to see if perhaps this was a course offered in schools other than the ones with which I've had experience, but no dice.

Shuny, could you perhaps recommend an institution that offers "serious college level courses in the Philosophy of Debating" so that we might correct any ignorance, on our parts?

[MaxVel]

Now that he's said this for the third time, I can't help but nitpick.

Has anyone ever actually seen any university that offers courses in the "Philosophy of Debating?" I mean, sure, I've seen courses on epistemology or logic, but I've never heard of a course focused on the Philosophy of Debate; and while I have had several philosophy professors who encourage playing Devil's Advocate as an exercise, I've never seen it listed on a curriculum as a serious area of study. I've checked out the websites for Yale, Harvard, Princeton, and Stanford, to see if perhaps this was a course offered in schools other than the ones with which I've had experience, but no dice.

Shuny, could you perhaps recommend an institution that offers "serious college level courses in the Philosophy of Debating" so that we might correct any ignorance, on our parts?

Bluff: called

[shunyadragon]

Now that he's said this for the third time, I can't help but nitpick.

Has anyone ever actually seen any university that offers courses in the "Philosophy of Debating?" I mean, sure, I've seen courses on epistemology or logic, but I've never heard of a course focused on the Philosophy of Debate; and while I have had several philosophy professors who encourage playing Devil's Advocate as an exercise, I've never seen it listed on a curriculum as a serious area of study. I've checked out the websites for Yale, Harvard, Princeton, and Stanford, to see if perhaps this was a course offered in schools other than the ones with which I've had experience, but no dice.

Shuny, could you perhaps recommend an institution that offers "serious college level courses in the Philosophy of Debating" so that we might correct any ignorance, on our parts?

Frog hair splitting and nit picking seems to be one of your specialties. I was using a general category of courses. Courses in epistemology and logic cover the philosophy of debating. There are also courses specifically on debating.

see the following for Debate Institutes at Dartmouth College. http://ddidebate.org/

Debating is grounded in the Philosophy of Logic, and to get into how to use debate as an intellectual exercise to explore alternatives in knowledge you have to study debating techniques themselves. The problem her is most people at Tweb and other cites go to the wall with there own presuppositions claiming proof of their own worldview only, and in reality achieved nothing at all. Many of course unfortunately claim logic as a Divine right that can only justify their own theological worldview.

Your profound ignorance is showing big time. Looking in all the wrong places to find only what you want to find.

[Boxing Pythagoras]

Frog hair splitting and nit picking seems to be one of your specialties. I was using a general category of courses. Courses in epistemology and logic cover the philosophy of debating.

Debate is certainly a tool utilized by many epistemology and logic courses, but I don't ever recall seeing it as an area of study on syllabi for such courses.

There are also courses specifically on debating.

Awesome! These are precisely what I was asking you to recommend, in my previous post. Which institution(s) would you recommend which offer "serious college level courses" that are "specifically on debating?" I'm sure no one in this thread wants to persist in ignorance-- I know that I certainly don't. Perhaps you might even recommend a textbook which discusses the value of Playing-Devil's-Advocate-without-acknowledging-that-case-while-obstinately-denying-all-evidence-contrary-to-your-assumed-position!

[shunyadragon]

Debate is certainly a tool utilized by many epistemology and logic courses, but I don't ever recall seeing it as an area of study on syllabi for such courses.

Awesome! These are precisely what I was asking you to recommend, in my previous post. Which institution(s) would you recommend which offer "serious college level courses" that are "specifically on debating?" I'm sure no one in this thread wants to persist in ignorance-- I know that I certainly don't. Perhaps you might even recommend a textbook which discusses the value of Playing-Devil's-Advocate-without-acknowledging-that-case-while-obstinately-denying-all-evidence-contrary-to-your-assumed-position!

I will give some recommendations on logic and debating in later posts. Actually since the only evidence for the Book of Psalms before AD are found in Canaanite texts, and the influence of language, poetic devices, and vocabulary is heavy throughout the Psalms, there has been no evidence-contrary-to- my-assumed-position presented. There in fact actually no evidence of the Hebrew Book of Psalms existing prior to 1 AD. It was a good argument to use this technique.

[Bill the Cat]

I will give some recommendations on logic and debating in later posts. Actually since the only evidence for the Book of Psalms before AD are found in Canaanite texts, and the influence of language, poetic devices, and vocabulary is heavy throughout the Psalms, there has been no evidence-contrary-to- my-assumed-position presented. There in fact actually no evidence of the Hebrew Book of Psalms existing prior to 1 AD. It was a good argument to use this technique.

Let me get this straight... are you claiming that there is no evidence of ANY of the Psalms before AD, except from Canaanite sources? Or are you claiming that there is no evidence for the ENTIRE BOOK as a whole?

[Pentecost]

I will give some recommendations on logic and debating in later posts. Actually since the only evidence for the Book of Psalms before AD are found in Canaanite texts, and the influence of language, poetic devices, and vocabulary is heavy throughout the Psalms, there has been no evidence-contrary-to- my-assumed-position presented. There in fact actually no evidence of the Hebrew Book of Psalms existing prior to 1 AD. It was a good argument to use this technique.

Well, not only am I wondering why you seem to insist that arguing a position contrary to your own is an advanced technique when it's about the second most obvious thing right after arguing for things you do believe.

Now, I haven't been keeping up with this thread, I joined right about where I posted, but here is some evidence, the LXX was compiled according to the sources I've seen during the 1-3rd centuries BC. The psalms are included, not that your claim that something can be "before AD" even logically makes sense since AD stands for Anno Domini, as you'll remember from the Latin courses you no doubt took along with you Philosophy of Debate courses (oh, wait) it means Year of Our Lord. Unless, oh did you mean the calendar system? That's so unenlightened of you sir! It's PC to use BCE and CE. I thought someone who was beyond such things as "Truth" would love those terms. (Though of course "beyond Truth" are lies and you did admit to not telling the truth in this thread... So I guess you told the truth about something.)

In the words of the Youth of today, shots fired.

[shunyadragon]

Let me get this straight... are you claiming that there is no evidence of ANY of the Psalms before AD, except from Canaanite sources? Or are you claiming that there is no evidence for the ENTIRE BOOK as a whole?

There are NO early texts of the Book of Psalms ever found only indirect text evidence, which will get you a cup of coffee at McDonalds for 2 bucks unless you are a senior citizen

[Bill the Cat]

There are NO early texts of the Book of Psalms ever found only indirect text evidence, which will get you a cup of coffee at McDonalds for 2 bucks unless you are a senior citizen

That did not answer my questions. When you say "The Book of Psalms", are you referring to ALL of the text or PARTS?

[Bill the Cat]

Name: 1QPsa (= 1Q10)
Content: Psalms 86:5–8; 92:12–14; 94:16; 95:11–96:2; 119:31–34, 43–48, 77–79
Bibliography: DJD 1
Date: First century B.C.


Name: 1QPsb (= 1Q11)
Content: Psalms 126:6; 127:1–5; 128:3
Bibliography: DJD 1
Date: First century B.C.
Significance: The tetragrammaton (i.e., four letters written as YHWH to represent Yahweh) is written in paleo-Hebrew letters. There are a few orthographic variants from proto-MT.

Name: 1QPsc (= 1Q12)
Content: Psalm 44:3–5, 7, 9, 23–25
Bibliography: DJD 1
Date: First century B.C.
Significance: The manuscript is quite fragmentary, but it appears to follow the full orthography typical of Qumran manuscripts.

Name: 4QPsa
Content: Psalms 5:9–13; 6:1–4; 25:15; 31:24–25; 33:1–12; 35:2, 14–20, 26–28; 36:1–9; 38:2–12, 16–23; 71:1–14; 47:2; 53:4–7; 54:1–6; 56:4; 62:13(?); 63:2–4; 66:16–20; 67:1–7; 69:1–19
Bibliography: plate: ER 1111 (43.027) +; Skehan (1978)
Date: c. 150 B.C.
Significance: The text is very close to proto-MT, although the sequence of Psalms deviates from the Hebrew canon.

Name: 4QPsd
Content: Psalms 146:10(?); 147:1–3, 13–17, 20; 104:1–5, 8–11, 14–15, 22–25, 33–35
Bibliography: plate: ER 1105 (43.021) +; Skehan (1978)
Date: c. 50 B.C.
Significance: The orthography is close to the proto-MT.