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Animals Doing What Animals Do...

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  • Darth Executor
    replied
    Originally posted by whag View Post
    The title alone telegraphed its trajectory. To begin from the standpoint that chimps rend competitive chimp penises, and so we should, too, if we live in a godless universe, is a pretty sad launching point for a conversation.


    As I've pointed out in previous threads, modern atheist behavior is about as dysgenic as you can get. Atheists are pathetic, weak, mewling, crybaby losers despite inheriting the greatest civilization in the history of the planet. Compare Britain today, which imports muslims to rape their teenage girls, with Imperial Britain. There's no question that the British then were a very successful organism whereas the British today are a laughingstock that don't even deserve to be called a shadow of their former self.

    While going on manic killing sprees isn't very productive behavior, the ethics taught to us by what appears to be an extremely progressive atheist culture are probably just as bad. From a materialistic perspective it makes perfect sense to band up with those closest to you and cooperate with each other whereas outgroups should be subjugated, destroyed and used whenever possible.

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  • seer
    replied
    Originally posted by whag View Post
    The title alone telegraphed its trajectory. To begin from the standpoint that chimps rend competitive chimp penises, and so we should, too, if we live in a godless universe, is a pretty sad launching point for a conversation.
    It is not about what we should do - it is about what we actually do. The Holocaust and the Rape of Nanking are perfectly natural acts. As natural as one group of chimps slaughtering another group - so the question is, why does one act cause you moral outrage while the other doesn't? When monkeys do it, well that is just nature. When humans do it - oh the horror!!! Irrational...

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  • seer
    replied
    Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
    Does not address the issue, scapegoating and misrepresenting human history gets you nowhere. You would have to justify the Holocaust from your deluded demented perspective on human nature, which cannot be justified from any perspective. Your neglecting role of of the Christian anti-semitism in the many Holocausts of history. Hitler could not have committed the Holocaust without the cooperation of the German people.
    Are you senile shuny? Everything I said was factual - what are you getting at? And I'm not neglecting anything - I never claimed that people who claimed to be Christians didn't do wicked this. Your post has zero to do with the points in the OP.

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  • whag
    replied
    Originally posted by pancreasman View Post
    And this is why threads like this are a waste of time: the extremists aren't interested in any kind of real dialogue. The repetition of slogans is no argument. Intransigence is not a virtue.
    The title alone telegraphed its trajectory. To begin from the standpoint that chimps rend competitive chimp penises, and so we should, too, if we live in a godless universe, is a pretty sad launching point for a conversation.

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  • pancreasman
    replied
    And this is why threads like this are a waste of time: the extremists aren't interested in any kind of real dialogue. The repetition of slogans is no argument. Intransigence is not a virtue.

    Leave a comment:


  • shunyadragon
    replied
    Originally posted by seer View Post
    Yes social behavior like the Holocaust...
    Does not address the issue, scapegoating and misrepresenting human history gets you nowhere. You would have to justify the Holocaust from your deluded demented perspective on human nature, which cannot be justified from any perspective. Your neglecting role of of the Christian anti-semitism in the many Holocausts of history. Hitler could not have committed the Holocaust without the cooperation of the German people.

    Source: http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/anti-semitism/Luther_on_Jews.html




    Martin Luther and 'The Jews and Their Lies'

    I had made up my mind to write no more either about the Jews or against them. But since I learned that these miserable and accursed people do not cease to lure to themselves even us, that is, the Christians, I have published this little book, so that I might be found among those who opposed such poisonous activities of the Jews who warned the Christians to be on their guard against them. I would not have believed that a Christian could be duped by the Jews into taking their exile and wretchedness upon himself. However, the devil is the god of the world, and wherever God's word is absent he has an easy task, not only with the weak but also with the strong. May God help us. Amen.

    * * *
    He did not call them Abraham's children, but a "brood of vipers" [Matt. 3:7]. Oh, that was too insulting for the noble blood and race of Israel, and they declared, "He has a demon' [Matt 11:18]. Our Lord also calls them a "brood of vipers"; furthermore in John 8 [:39,44] he states: "If you were Abraham's children ye would do what Abraham did.... You are of your father the devil. It was intolerable to them to hear that they were not Abraham's but the devil's children, nor can they bear to hear this today.

    What shall we Christians do with this rejected and condemned people, the Jews? Since they live among us, we dare not tolerate their conduct, now that we are aware of their lying and reviling and blaspheming. If we do, we become sharers in their lies, cursing and blasphemy. Thus we cannot extinguish the unquenchable fire of divine wrath, of which the prophets speak, nor can we convert the Jews. With prayer and the fear of God we must practice a sharp mercy to see whether we might save at least a few from the glowing flames. We dare not avenge ourselves. Vengeance a thousand times worse than we could wish them already has them by the throat. I shall give you my sincere advice:

    First to set fire to their synagogues or schools and to bury and cover with dirt whatever will not burn, so that no man will ever again see a stone or cinder of them. This is to be done in honor of our Lord and of Christendom, so that God might see that we are Christians, and do not condone or knowingly tolerate such public lying, cursing, and blaspheming of his Son and of his Christians. For whatever we tolerated in the past unknowingly * and I myself was unaware of it * will be pardoned by God. But if we, now that we are informed, were to protect and shield such a house for the Jews, existing right before our very nose, in which they lie about, blaspheme, curse, vilify, and defame Christ and us (as was heard above), it would be the same as if we were doing all this and even worse ourselves, as we very well know.

    Second, I advise that their houses also be razed and destroyed. For they pursue in them the same aims as in their synagogues. Instead they might be lodged under a roof or in a barn, like the gypsies. This will bring home to them that they are not masters in our country, as they boast, but that they are living in exile and in captivity, as they incessantly wail and lament about us before God.

    Third, I advise that all their prayer books and Talmudic writings, in which such idolatry, lies, cursing and blasphemy are taught, be taken from them. (remainder omitted)

    Fourth, I advise that their rabbis be forbidden to teach henceforth on pain of loss of life and limb. For they have justly forfeited the right to such an office by holding the poor Jews captive with the saying of Moses (Deuteronomy 17 [:10 ff.]) in which he commands them to obey their teachers on penalty of death, although Moses clearly adds: "what they teach you in accord with the law of the Lord." Those villains ignore that. They wantonly employ the poor people's obedience contrary to the law of the Lord and infuse them with this poison, cursing, and blasphemy. In the same way the pope also held us captive with the declaration in Matthew 16 {:18], "You are Peter," etc, inducing us to believe all the lies and deceptions that issued from his devilish mind. He did not teach in accord with the word of God, and therefore he forfeited the right to teach.

    Fifth, I advise that safe*conduct on the highways be abolished completely for the Jews. For they have no business in the countryside, since they are not lords, officials, tradesmen, or the like. Let they stay at home. (...remainder omitted).

    Sixth, I advise that usury be prohibited to them, and that all cash and treasure of silver and gold be taken from them and put aside for safekeeping. The reason for such a measure is that, as said above, they have no other means of earning a livelihood than usury, and by it they have stolen and robbed from us all they possess. Such money should now be used in no other way than the following: Whenever a Jew is sincerely converted, he should be handed one hundred, two hundred, or three hundred florins, as personal circumstances may suggest. With this he could set himself up in some occupation for the support of his poor wife and children, and the maintenance of the old or feeble. For such evil gains are cursed if they are not put to use with God's blessing in a good and worthy cause.

    Seventh, I commend putting a flail, an ax, a hoe, a spade, a distaff, or a spindle into the hands of young, strong Jews and Jewesses and letting them earn their bread in the sweat of their brow, as was imposed on the children of Adam (Gen 3[:19]}. For it is not fitting that they should let us accursed Goyim toil in the sweat of our faces while they, the holy people, idle away their time behind the stove, feasting and farting, and on top of all, boasting blasphemously of their lordship over the Christians by means of our sweat. No, one should toss out these lazy rogues by the seat of their pants.

    © Copyright Original Source

    Last edited by shunyadragon; 11-17-2014, 03:59 PM.

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  • pancreasman
    replied
    Originally posted by Paprika View Post
    Allow me to clarify: your stance is that behaviors that make population groups more successful are by definition "ethical"?
    Nope.

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  • seer
    replied
    Originally posted by The Pixie View Post
    It was animals doing what animals do, then, being smarter animals, justifying by saying it was a judgement of God.
    How does that change anything?

    The alternative is to suppose than the Canaanite deserved to be enslaved because the father of Canaan saw his father naked.
    What's the big deal - just animals doing what animals do.

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  • The Pixie
    replied
    Originally posted by seer View Post
    Except those were judgements of God. If they weren't then we are back to animals doing what animals do - all quite natural. And beneficial for the conquering tribe.
    It was animals doing what animals do, then, being smarter animals, justifying by saying it was a judgement of God.

    The alternative is to suppose than the Canaanite deserved to be enslaved because the father of Canaan saw his father naked.

    Leave a comment:


  • seer
    replied
    Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post

    A natural Creation through evolution is well documented in science is demonstrated by the evolution of social behavior among different species that result in human behavior.
    Yes social behavior like the Holocaust...

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  • shunyadragon
    replied
    Originally posted by seer View Post
    Over the years there has been no end to atheistic philosophers developing ethical systems. Some being very good and involved. This is interesting - if they didn't already believe there was something deeply wrong or out of sorts why even attempt to develop such systems? I find it strange, that they find human behavior strange or in need of reform. They don't find it equally upsetting when a lion kills and eats a gazelle, or who one group of chimpanzees slaughters all the males in another group and take their females and territory. We say that is just nature working herself out. But how, for instance, is the Rape of Nanking any different in kind? The second problem is that it is not difficult to invent an ethical system - the problem has always been getting men to follow them. I mean my goodness, if all men followed the simple, easily understood, golden rule, from their heart, we would have heaven on earth tomorrow. But men don't, or only to a limited degree. These atheistic ethical systems are running headlong into human nature - which brings us back to the question - why do they find these very natural behaviors so objectionable? And why don't they apply this same moral outrage to the rest of nature? In a godless universe are we not too just animals doing what animals do?
    I believe in God, but I will take the side of science in the above floundering erroneous view of human nature. Naturally humans are a social animal, a more complex mammal but nonetheless a social mammal with similar behavioral characteristics like other less complex social mammals like primates and sea mammals.

    A natural Creation through evolution is well documented in science is demonstrated by the evolution of social behavior among different species that result in human behavior.

    Leave a comment:


  • seer
    replied
    Originally posted by whag View Post
    What an insult to Japanese citizens of the 20s. The slaughter of Nanking had more to do with the military's dehumanization the enemy, which isn't specific to Japan but most militaries. What you just said was tantamount to assuming my mom who grew up in the 60s would participate in a My Lai.
    No, it is not an insult, it is a fact. Both of us being male we would probably have served in the Japanese military. But I'm not sure why such actions would bother you - after all it's just animals doing what animals do. I mean are you morally outraged when one group chimps slaughters another group of chimps?

    With every new post of yours, I doubt even more that God gave you a magic floating fern show. Your sloppy apologetics indicate the event would've been wasted on you.
    And your opinion matters why? Obviously you have only succeeded in proving my point from the OP. There is a logical disconnect in your reasoning. You don't find animals killing animals ethically objectionable, but you have a real problem when humans slaughter other humans. But, at bottom, that too is only animals killing animals.

    Leave a comment:


  • whag
    replied
    Originally posted by seer View Post
    What a silly argument whag - what if you or I were raised in 1920s Japan - we would probably both would done the same thing in Nanking. And mass mass murder is animal predation, because as you keep making clear - we are all merely animals.
    What an insult to Japanese citizens of the 20s. The slaughter of Nanking had more to do with the military's dehumanization the enemy, which isn't specific to Japan but most militaries. What you just said was tantamount to assuming my mom who grew up in the 60s would participate in a My Lai.

    With every new post of yours, I doubt even more that God gave you a magic floating fern show. Your sloppy apologetics indicate the event would've been wasted on you.

    Leave a comment:


  • seer
    replied
    Originally posted by The Pixie View Post
    And the Hebrews too, as recorded in Numbers and Deuteronomy.
    Except those were judgements of God. If they weren't then we are back to animals doing what animals do - all quite natural. And beneficial for the conquering tribe.
    Last edited by seer; 11-17-2014, 10:02 AM.

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  • The Pixie
    replied
    Originally posted by seer View Post
    Well no it isn't. Sure it is better for the tribe or group to practice internal altruism. That does not necessarily need to extend to outside groups or tribes. Just look how successful the Europeans were in North America by slaughtering the natives and taking their territories.
    And the Hebrews too, as recorded in Numbers and Deuteronomy.

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