My perspective on The Problem of Evil

[Kelp(p)]

To what end? Why would there then be a time limit on anyone in Hell? I have no issue with hell as a 'do it yourself torment' but I'm not following the time limit/sentence/whatever that was that you were saying about an eventual end to being in Hell.


Option C: A God Who eventually gives us what we say we want. God isn't a quitter but He isn't a bully, either and there is a dividing line between the two.

Let's go back to the 'omni-persuader' thing of yours. Define this for me. Coming from a Poli Sci background, I find it a bizarre argument but I think the problem is in how you are defining 'persuasion' so I want that clarified if you don't mind.

There isn't a "time limit" on Hell in the sense of an external finite sentence from God or anything like that. Hell is created by the rejector's own obstinacy and hatred of God. "Getting out" doesn't occur until the believer really comes to repent of their sins and love God.

For me it's a simple extension of what happens in life when God regenerates someone. You and I are both more or less Arminians, so I'll argue from that vein exclusively to keep things the simplest.

We both believe that God woos us at various times in our life, giving us grace to see our rebellion and the option accept Him or reject Him. He keeps on "knocking" until we open the door. Since sin is fundamentally the rejection of God and sin always causes suffering in one way or another, continuing to reject Him is basically to be in our private Hell. Even if we do not always realize this in life, we certainly will after death. So, yes, God does give us what we want, just like He does in life when people reject Him.

Where I depart from the mainstream is simply that I don't see why God should give up after the End. Either He imposes an artificial limit on His own compassion, which makes no sense. Or there are human beings who are capable of outlasting Him. This is where my admittedly clunky term, "omni-persuasiveness" comes in. Chesterton famously described grace as "the hound of Heaven." God is relentless in this life, always coming back to us, always appealing to our wills to accept Him.

I don't, mean that God tries to "negotiate" us into Heaven or anything like that. But any synergist has to admit that there are things about what goes on in Prevenient Grace that we don't really understand, right? God just keeps coming back and knocking at the door to our hearts. Time, after time, after time, however long it takes Him. The only difference between us that I can see, is that I extend the process into eternity. Eventually the hardest heart in the universe, no matter how much they insist on remaining in Hell, will give in to God's grace and come to love Him, repent, and extinguish the fires of Hell forever with their own tears.

[Teallaura]

Okay, I'll come back to this when I've had some time to think about it.

Thanks.

[Raphael]

There isn't a "time limit" on Hell in the sense of an external finite sentence from God or anything like that. Hell is created by the rejector's own obstinacy and hatred of God. "Getting out" doesn't occur until the believer really comes to repent of their sins and love God.

For me it's a simple extension of what happens in life when God regenerates someone. You and I are both more or less Arminians, so I'll argue from that vein exclusively to keep things the simplest.

We both believe that God woos us at various times in our life, giving us grace to see our rebellion and the option accept Him or reject Him. He keeps on "knocking" until we open the door. Since sin is fundamentally the rejection of God and sin always causes suffering in one way or another, continuing to reject Him is basically to be in our private Hell. Even if we do not always realize this in life, we certainly will after death. So, yes, God does give us what we want, just like He does in life when people reject Him.

Where I depart from the mainstream is simply that I don't see why God should give up after the End. Either He imposes an artificial limit on His own compassion, which makes no sense. Or there are human beings who are capable of outlasting Him. This is where my admittedly clunky term, "omni-persuasiveness" comes in. Chesterton famously described grace as "the hound of Heaven." God is relentless in this life, always coming back to us, always appealing to our wills to accept Him.

I don't, mean that God tries to "negotiate" us into Heaven or anything like that. But any synergist has to admit that there are things about what goes on in Prevenient Grace that we don't really understand, right? God just keeps coming back and knocking at the door to our hearts. Time, after time, after time, however long it takes Him. The only difference between us that I can see, is that I extend the process into eternity. Eventually the hardest heart in the universe, no matter how much they insist on remaining in Hell, will give in to God's grace and come to love Him, repent, and extinguish the fires of Hell forever with their own tears.

To clarify then are you agreeing with Rob Bell's approach he outlines in his book Love Wins?

[Kelp(p)]

To clarify then are you agreeing with Rob Bell's approach he outlines in his book Love Wins?

Never read it.

[Kelp(p)]

Okay, I'll come back to this when I've had some time to think about it.

Thanks.

No prob