Originally posted by JohnnyP
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Forum Rules: Here
This forum is open discussion between atheists and all theists to defend and debate their views on religion or non-religion. Please respect that this is a Christian-owned forum and refrain from gratuitous blasphemy. VERY wide leeway is given in range of expression and allowable behavior as compared to other areas of the forum, and moderation is not overly involved unless necessary. Please keep this in mind. Atheists who wish to interact with theists in a way that does not seek to undermine theistic faith may participate in the World Religions Department. Non-debate question and answers and mild and less confrontational discussions can take place in General Theistics.
Forum Rules: Here
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The Rachael Slick question.
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Rachel Slick, based on the article presented, appears to be recovering from a religious cult. Her descriptions are classic: isolation, indoctrination and constant reinforcement of fundamental beliefs.
She appears to be confused, for she is conflating Judaism with Christianity. Why would you expect Christians to obey the G-d of the Tanakh? They do not worship YHWH, they worship Jesus who was a follower of YHWH. From the accounts in the Christian Bible, it isn't really clear whether he eventually broke away from his Jewish faith as did his followers.
I am Jewish, and I can tell you that the common belief is that the Law IS moral - all of it, not just the so-called Noahide Laws (Christians who base some sort of hyper-blend of Christianity and Judaism have mistakenly interpreted an act of charity toward Christians [from Maimonides] as some kind of Law of G-d. They are clearly mistaken). At any rate, most Christians I know wantonly disobey even these moral laws (idolatry, sexual purity and the prohibition of eating non-Kosher prepared meats are the biggest ones).
So, Christians are not bound by G-d's Law. No harm, no foul. It's their religion. They can make their own rules.
NORMWhen the missionaries came to Africa they had the Bible and we had the land. They said 'Let us pray.' We closed our eyes. When we opened them we had the Bible and they had the land. - Bishop Desmond Tutu
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Originally posted by NormATive View PostRachel Slick, based on the article presented, appears to be recovering from a religious cult. Her descriptions are classic: isolation, indoctrination and constant reinforcement of fundamental beliefs.
She appears to be confused, for she is conflating Judaism with Christianity. Why would you expect Christians to obey the G-d of the Tanakh? They do not worship YHWH, they worship Jesus who was a follower of YHWH. From the accounts in the Christian Bible, it isn't really clear whether he eventually broke away from his Jewish faith as did his followers.
I am Jewish, and I can tell you that the common belief is that the Law IS moral - all of it, not just the so-called Noahide Laws (Christians who base some sort of hyper-blend of Christianity and Judaism have mistakenly interpreted an act of charity toward Christians [from Maimonides] as some kind of Law of G-d. They are clearly mistaken). At any rate, most Christians I know wantonly disobey even these moral laws (idolatry, sexual purity and the prohibition of eating non-Kosher prepared meats are the biggest ones).
So, Christians are not bound by G-d's Law. No harm, no foul. It's their religion. They can make their own rules.
NORM
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Originally posted by Adrift View PostIts been awhile, but I think last time I talked to you Norm you didn't believe in YHWH, you were agnostic or something. Has that changed? For the record, Christians maintain that they worship YHWH.
Christians have been deceived into thinking that they worship the G-d of the Tanakh, but that is clearly not the case. They worship Jesus of Galilee. Just peruse any Christian hymnal, and you will see 90 percent of the songs are directed toward Jesus, not G-d. Before nearly every Christian worship service, some sort of creed vowing allegiance to Jesus is recited.
In our services, we sing the Psalms in Hebrew (G-d's language).
I know that they think the manufactured mechanism of the so-called Holy Trinity ameliorates the blasphemy of worshiping a false god, but according to my sources, G-d is not fooled.
NORMWhen the missionaries came to Africa they had the Bible and we had the land. They said 'Let us pray.' We closed our eyes. When we opened them we had the Bible and they had the land. - Bishop Desmond Tutu
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Originally posted by NormATive View PostWhat I do or don't believe is immaterial to this discussion.
Christians have been deceived into thinking that they worship the G-d of the Tanakh, but that is clearly not the case. They worship Jesus of Galilee. Just peruse any Christian hymnal, and you will see 90 percent of the songs are directed toward Jesus, not G-d. Before nearly every Christian worship service, some sort of creed vowing allegiance to Jesus is recited.
In our services, we sing the Psalms in Hebrew (G-d's language).
I know that they think the manufactured mechanism of the so-called Holy Trinity ameliorates the blasphemy of worshiping a false god, but according to my sources, G-d is not fooled.
NORM
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Originally posted by NormATive View PostWhat I do or don't believe is immaterial to this discussion.
Christians have been deceived into thinking that they worship the G-d of the Tanakh, but that is clearly not the case. They worship Jesus of Galilee. Just peruse any Christian hymnal, and you will see 90 percent of the songs are directed toward Jesus, not G-d. Before nearly every Christian worship service, some sort of creed vowing allegiance to Jesus is recited.
In our services, we sing the Psalms in Hebrew (G-d's language).
I know that they think the manufactured mechanism of the so-called Holy Trinity ameliorates the blasphemy of worshiping a false god, but according to my sources, G-d is not fooled.
NORM
Which brings us to the point: Jews without Jesus are running to atheism decreasing theism among Jews to maybe half of .3% of the world's population, while more than 50% of it accept Jesus in some form as well as God.
That alone proves that Jesus is most responsible for turning the world to the God of Israel. While being a Jew is simply a ticket to atheism these days. In your own case as well.
Sorry to burst your bubble again. The Messiah has already turned the world and there's nothing to be said that can change it.
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Originally posted by JohnnyP View PostThe Messiah has already turned the world and there's nothing to be said that can change it.“I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
“And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
“not all there” - you know who you are
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Originally posted by firstfloor View PostAmerica is secularising just like Europe. A website like this one puts Christianity under the microscope. Religions cannot stand up to close scrutiny. That is why they only persist by means of heavy and continuous indoctrination, lots of guilt, peer pressure and even religious police in Muslim countries. The human spirit wants to be free and it is starting to throw off its chains.
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Originally posted by JohnnyP View PostNope that's an illusion, some humans just want to have power God or not, and you will always be in chains. Whether it's with Jews or Americans or British or Chinese. You're never going to have any real freedom until you die. And that's about it.“I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
“And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
“not all there” - you know who you are
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so since FF can't support his initial OP, he is back to running his mouth claiming religion will disappear one day.
It's like he is a 3 year-old who, after trying to talk his parents into something and they refuse, he throws a tantrum.
What's next FF, gonna pack a little suitcase and run away from home>
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Originally posted by Sparko View Postso since FF can't support his initial OP, he is back to running his mouth claiming religion will disappear one day.
It's like he is a 3 year-old who, after trying to talk his parents into something and they refuse, he throws a tantrum.
What's next FF, gonna pack a little suitcase and run away from home>“I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
“And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
“not all there” - you know who you are
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Originally posted by firstfloor View PostYou are projecting again. I already explained the OP but just for you I will put it again in a slightly different way. If God was what Christians say He is, He would not need a new covenant. Divine law given once should be sufficient for all time. This is not what we see and therefore Divine law is a myth.
At least try reading the bible for yourself instead of merely wallowing in atheist web sites for your information. At least then maybe you could come up with some objections of your own that haven't been answered over and over for the last 2000 years.
Grow up.
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Originally posted by Sparko View Postso since FF can't support his initial OP, he is back to running his mouth claiming religion will disappear one day.
It's like he is a 3 year-old who, after trying to talk his parents into something and they refuse, he throws a tantrum.
What's next FF, gonna pack a little suitcase and run away from home>Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostAt least try reading the bible for yourself instead of merely wallowing in atheist web sites for your information.Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?
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Originally posted by Jedidiah View PostNot fair, Sparko. He has already showed that his reading ability is not the greatest.
“…… religious extremism closely linked to extreme right-wing political movements. The creationist movements possess real political power. The fact of the matter, and this has been exposed on several occasions, is that some advocates of strict creationism are out to replace democracy by theocracy.”
http://assembly.coe.int/ASP/XRef/X2H...=17592&lang=en“I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
“And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
“not all there” - you know who you are
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