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Evidence For A Soul?

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  • Evidence For A Soul?

    ????????

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/sc...l-9780195.html

    There is scientific evidence to suggest that life can continue after death, according to the largest ever medical study carried out on the subject.

    A team based in the UK has spent the last four years seeking out cardiac arrest patients to analyse their experiences, and found that almost 40 per cent of survivors described having some form of “awareness” at a time when they were declared clinically dead.

    Experts currently believe that the brain shuts down within 20 to 30 seconds of the heart stopping beating – and that it is not possible to be aware of anything at all once that has happened.

    But scientists in the new study said they heard compelling evidence that patients experienced real events for up to three minutes after this had happened – and could recall them accurately once they had been resuscitated.
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

  • #2
    Our brains are a complex machine powered by electricity and various neurochemicals. That combination of chemical messengers and electrical impulses is in essence who we are. When death occurs, true medical death all brain activity has ceased and that electrical activity is no longer there. Now the law of conservation of energy states that energy cannot be create nor destroyed... so where does it go? Does it dissipate into our body to be grounded or does it go to Heaven/Hell? Not sure but it's food for thought.

    One thing is for certain, if souls exist as I believe they do they must be composed of some type of energy, I'm sure of that.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by That Geek 5410 View Post

      One thing is for certain, if souls exist as I believe they do they must be composed of some type of energy, I'm sure of that.
      Yes, that may be, but it may not be an energy that we can detect.
      Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

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      • #4
        Since these people are not actually completely dead, it really doesn't prove anything.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Sparko View Post
          Since these people are not actually completely dead, it really doesn't prove anything.
          But there is no brain function.
          Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by seer View Post
            But there is no brain function.
            People don't wake up right away, they're wheeled into the recovering room. So how do we know they didn't form these experience much later during the time in the recovering room when they were waking up, dreaming and perhaps hearing snippets of conversations around them? That's one of the big problems I have with the ways these studies are typically used. Its taken for granted that the experienced happened during the moment of flatline.

            Even a flatline doesn't mean that there's no electrical activity.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by seer View Post
              But there is no brain function.
              sure there is. They are just unconscious. If there were no brain function, then they would not be able to be revived. You brain remains alive and functioning for 5 or so minutes after your heart stops. You are reading a pop news piece without any facts.

              http://www.uofmhealth.org/news/archi...ss-dying-brain
              Last edited by Sparko; 10-08-2014, 01:30 PM.

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              • #8
                The AWARE project is a study I have been tracking since its inception. Personally, I am most interested in the use of "independent markers" designed to verify the objectivity of "veridical perception" during an OBE (outer-body experience). The results of the study are currently undergoing peer review and should be available to the public in due time:

                http://horizonresearch.org/main_page.php?cat_id=212

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Leonhard View Post
                  People don't wake up right away, they're wheeled into the recovering room. So how do we know they didn't form these experience much later during the time in the recovering room when they were waking up, dreaming and perhaps hearing snippets of conversations around them? That's one of the big problems I have with the ways these studies are typically used. Its taken for granted that the experienced happened during the moment of flatline.

                  Even a flatline doesn't mean that there's no electrical activity.
                  If a patient is in asystole then there is no electrical activity in the heart or there is insufficient electrical activity to be detected on a ecg. The brain will pick up on this via autonomic nervous system and the brain will shut down for the most part. It's a survival mechanism such as when your body shunts blood toward the torso when someone is bleeding out.

                  Your body will do whatever it can to keep key organs perfused... when that fails it shuts the brain down as a last resort. Perception of the outside world is impossible so you can't simply recall anything as there is nothing for you to remember. If there is a naturalistic explanation to this phenomenon it is certainly not that.

                  So in short, no sensory capability, no stimuli. No stimuli, no memory.
                  Source: 7 years as an EMT plus college A&P.
                  Last edited by That Geek 5410; 10-08-2014, 04:36 PM.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by That Geek 5410 View Post
                    If a patient is in asystole then there is no electrical activity in the heart or there is insufficient electrical activity to be detected on a ecg. The brain will pick up on this via autonomic nervous system and the brain will shut down for the most part. It's a survival mechanism such as when your body shunts blood toward the torso when someone is bleeding out.

                    Your body will do whatever it can to keep key organs perfused... when that fails it shuts the brain down as a last resort. Perception of the outside world is impossible so you can't simply recall anything as there is nothing for you to remember. If there is a naturalistic explanation to this phenomenon it is certainly not that.

                    Source: 7 years as an EMT plus college A&P.
                    I don't mean that your brain remembers things that occurred during the operating theater. I mean that typically these patients are waking up later, hours, days later in recovery. Only then do they report experienced they were supposed to have had during the operating theater, but why assume that those experiences occurred there, and no while they were waking up? As they wake up they might hear doctors or nurses talk and that may or may not affect their dreams.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Leonhard View Post
                      I don't mean that your brain remembers things that occurred during the operating theater. I mean that typically these patients are waking up later, hours, days later in recovery. Only then do they report experienced they were supposed to have had during the operating theater, but why assume that those experiences occurred there, and no while they were waking up? As they wake up they might hear doctors or nurses talk and that may or may not affect their dreams.
                      I don't see physicians and nurses getting together in sicu or the patients room to reminisce via a play by play.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                        sure there is. They are just unconscious. If there were no brain function, then they would not be able to be revived. You brain remains alive and functioning for 5 or so minutes after your heart stops. You are reading a pop news piece without any facts.

                        http://www.uofmhealth.org/news/archi...ss-dying-brain
                        I searched that page using the keyword "minute." Your credibility in my eyes is now minute, based on the result of the search.
                        The greater number of laws . . . , the more thieves . . . there will be. ---- Lao-Tzu

                        [T]he truth I’m after and the truth never harmed anyone. What harms us is to persist in self-deceit and ignorance -— Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                          sure there is. They are just unconscious. If there were no brain function, then they would not be able to be revived. You brain remains alive and functioning for 5 or so minutes after your heart stops. You are reading a pop news piece without any facts.

                          http://www.uofmhealth.org/news/archi...ss-dying-brain
                          Uhh, that article (and it's linked study) only mention 30 seconds (in rats)
                          "If you can ever make any major religion look absolutely ludicrous, chances are you haven't understood it"
                          -Ravi Zacharias, The New Age: A foreign bird with a local walk

                          Be watchful, stand firm in the faith, act like men, be strong.
                          1 Corinthians 16:13

                          "...he [Doherty] is no historian and he is not even conversant with the historical discussions of the very matters he wants to pontificate on."
                          -Ben Witherington III

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                          • #14
                            Experiences are not really evidence. You can not test them.
                            Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Jedidiah View Post
                              Experiences are not really evidence. You can not test them.
                              No, they aren't. Now if you view them more from a historian's perspective you may begin to notice trends allowing you to realize there may be something there as a most likely valid experience. If nothing else you can attempt to debunk it by thinking of everything that it can possibly be and by ruling options out you can begin to have a better idea what it is by knowing what it's not.

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