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Satan's Story

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  • Satan's Story

    I would find it difficult as a Christian to explain certain concepts, such as the concept of Satan. Is there a minimal set of facts about Satan that can be presented? Was he a friend of God who became God's ultimate enemy, or is that even abusing the minimal information about him?

  • #2
    Well, there is nothing "ultimate" about him. He is just another creation.
    Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

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    • #3
      He's a fallen angel/archangel. The 'leader ' of the fallen angels.
      If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

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      • #4
        I can tell you've really been dying to know about Satan for these last few months.
        "Faith is nothing less than the will to keep one's mind fixed precisely on what reason has discovered to it." - Edward Feser

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Christianbookworm View Post
          He's a fallen angel/archangel. The 'leader ' of the fallen angels.
          this is a foundational truth about who Satan was? I thought even that minimal fact of his origin can be doubted since OT passages are vague and possibly not have the meanings that Christians have read into it.

          my question is, if it's widely disputed that Satan is a fallen angel, how else can he be personified within the bounds of orthodoxy? does a christian even need to enforce that belief on himself or can he just say 'I really have no idea what Satan is.' is belief in Satan necessary for spiritual growth in Christianity?
          Last edited by whag; 01-22-2014, 10:36 PM.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Jedidiah View Post
            Well, there is nothing "ultimate" about him. He is just another creation.
            not ultimate in terms of unlimited power, but ultimate in terms of scale of damage. just another creation, hardly.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by whag View Post
              I would find it difficult as a Christian to explain certain concepts, such as the concept of Satan. Is there a minimal set of facts about Satan that can be presented? Was he a friend of God who became God's ultimate enemy, or is that even abusing the minimal information about him?
              To start, my view is that creatures of Genesis 2 are cherubim like angels, while regular animals are evolved in Genesis 1. So the Serpent is not really a talking snake, but like an angel who was created to help guide Adam, but instead led him astray. I don't know about a "friend" to God or Adam, but he was intended to be a "help meet." Evidence to the view:

              Genesis 2:20 And Adam gave names to all cattle (OX), and to the fowl of the air (EAGLE), and to every beast of the field (LION); but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him. (SIMILAR QUALITIES TO...)
              Ezekiel 1:10 As for the likeness of their faces, they four had the face of a man, and the face of a lion, on the right side: and they four had the face of an ox on the left side; they four also had the face of an eagle.

              Genesis 1:3 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?
              Revelation 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
              Satan as an evil "lucifer" and guiding light and power behind some nations, contrasted to Jesus as a righteous "lucifer" and guiding light. Evidence to the view:

              Revelation 13:4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him? (POWER BEHIND BEAST KINGDOMS)

              Isaiah 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! (POWER BEHIND BABYLON)

              Ezekiel 28:13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.

              Ezekiel 28:14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. (POWER BEHIND TYRE)
              vs.

              Revelation 22:16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star. (POWER BEHIND RIGHTEOUS)

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              • #8
                that's a good start. i struggle to ascertain the extent of his office. on one hand, he's a helpmeet. on the other, a very important person with an endowment of jewels. is it reasonable to assume he did something to earn his appointment?

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by whag View Post
                  that's a good start. i struggle to ascertain the extent of his office. on one hand, he's a helpmeet. on the other, a very important person with an endowment of jewels. is it reasonable to assume he did something to earn his appointment?
                  It doesn't say so, but it may be that his job was to help keep Adam from the Tree of Knowledge, as others were placed to keep him from the Tree of Life, but he failed in his job. That's just a suspicion of mine...

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by JohnnyP View Post
                    It doesn't say so, but it may be that his job was to help keep Adam from the Tree of Knowledge, as others were placed to keep him from the Tree of Life, but he failed in his job. That's just a suspicion of mine...
                    yes, it could be anything, and that's why I'm asking these questions. minimally, he was a bejeweled angel with a high office: to guide adam. minimally, can we say he went recruiting his colleagues thereafter and planned their explusion from eden?

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                    • #11
                      A lot of what people think they know about him is just myth that self-perpetuates itself. There's not a whole lot we can say with certainty, and I'm not even sure we can be certain he's the "leader" in the sense that he's always calling the shots for the forces of darkness. But I'd say:

                      1) He exists
                      2) He has participated in acts of temptation and accusation
                      3) He attempted to throw a wrench in the ministry of Jesus and the formation of the early church
                      4) As a preterist, I'd say he's no longer active in the world but will be again one day
                      5) He will be destroyed

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by whag View Post
                        yes, it could be anything, and that's why I'm asking these questions. minimally, he was a bejeweled angel with a high office: to guide adam. minimally, can we say he went recruiting his colleagues thereafter and planned their explusion from eden?
                        The Bible itself isn't informative about how other angels became demons and allied with Satan, some views from Judaism and Christian Apocrypha:

                        The queen of demons is Lilith, pictured with wings and long flowing hair, and called the "mother of Ahriman" ( B. B. 73b; 'Er. 100b; Nid. 24b). "When Adam, doing penance for his sin, separated from Eve for 130 years, he, by impure desire, caused the earth to be filled with demons, or shedim, lilin, and evil spirits" (Gen. R. xx.; 'Er. 18b), and according to Pseudo-Sirach ("Alphabetum Siracidis," ed. Steinschneider, p. 23) it was Lilith, as Adam's concubine, who bore them (compare "Chronicles of Jerahmeel," ed. Gaster. xxiii. 1).

                        The speculation regarding the nature and origin of these demons and their leaders led as early as the second pre-Christian century, in those fragments preserved under the name of the Book of Enoch, to the story of the fall of the angels (Enoch, vii.-viii.; lxix.). Like Beelzebub, or Lucifer (Isa. xiv. 12; compare Slavonic Enoch, xxix. 4), two hundred 'Irin or "watchers" fell, attracted by the beauty of the daughters of men (Gen. vi. 4); only tradition obviously differed as to the leader of the rebellious host, whether it was Azazel or Shamḥazai. At any rate, they acknowledged the supremacy of Satan (liii. 3, liv. 6), though occasionally many satans are mentioned (xl. 7 et al.), and these fallen angels became "the evil spirits" (xv. 8, xix. 19) who taught mankind all the arts of deception, witchcraft, and sin (vii.-viii., lxix.). But their children, the offspring of this mixture of an earthly and a celestial race, became, when slain, the hybrid race of disembodiedspirits or demons doing the work of destruction until the Day of Judgment (xvi. 1). -Jewish Encyclopedia (1 Enoch, 2 Enoch)
                        Another type of angels are those that are created through the deeds of man. In the words of our Sages: "He who fulfills one mitzvah, acquires for himself one angel-advocate; he who commits one transgression, acquires against himself one angel-accuser."11 These are formed from the (intellectual and emotional) energy which one invests in the performance of a mitzvah, the study of Torah, or in prayer—or, conversely, energy applied in the execution of a sin. -What Are Angels? Chabad
                        I've considered another possibility, that Satan's angels cast out from the War in Heaven of Revelation may not necessarily refer to all demons, but refers to cherubim in Genesis 3, where their removal would allow man back to the Tree of Life, damnation of man out of the Garden vs. salvation of man back into the Garden:

                        Genesis 3:24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.

                        Revelation 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

                        Revelation 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

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                        • #13
                          Has your modern education left you ignorant of all the stories involving the scheming royal vizier? Even if it has, enough time in any human organization should see the pattern repeat itself in a hundred small ways.

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                          • #14
                            ". . . Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. . . ." -- Genesis 3:1.

                            ". . . Son of man, say unto the prince of Tyrus, . . . _ . . . Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; . . . _ . . . Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; . . . _ . . . Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee." -- Ezekiel 28:2. 13-15.

                            ". . . against the king of Babylon, . . . _ . . . How art thou fallen from heaven, O *Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit." -- Isaiah 14:4, 12-15.

                            * Translated from the Hebrew into Latin and the Latin trasliterated to English as Lucifer.

                            " . . . the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him." -- Revelation 12:9.
                            . . . the Gospel of Christ, for it is [the] power of God to salvation to every [one] believing, . . . -- Romans 1:16.

                            . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3, 4.

                            Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Manwë Súlimo View Post
                              A lot of what people think they know about him is just myth that self-perpetuates itself.
                              true. judging from the scriptures offered so far, most Christians believe a myth that Satan was an angel who turned bad and recruited other angels to join him, who then became demons. is that a minimal fact that we can be certain about?



                              Originally posted by Manwë Súlimo View Post
                              1)
                              2) He has participated in acts of...accusation
                              are you referring to Job? I thought Job was a myth.


                              Originally posted by Manwë Súlimo View Post
                              3) He attempted to throw a wrench in the ministry of Jesus and the formation of the early church

                              was it just him or demons well? did he call the shots for the demons (I assume "forces of darkness" refers to Satan's army)?


                              Originally posted by Manwë Súlimo View Post
                              )4 As a preterist, I'd say he's no longer active in the world but will be again one day
                              for what purpose will he be unbound?

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