The Laws Of Nature, A Violation?

[Quantum Weirdness]

I always wondered if God uses natural circumstances to help people. I remember one time, I asked God to see the end of the world (yeah, I know, bad idea). So, that night, while I was watching TV, I saw a cartoon person hanged. I was startled and then scared as it was not leaving the screen. I then asked God not to see the end in a quick prayer and the image disappeared.

[tabibito]

That one has me completely baffled, Quantum Weirdness.

[Sparko]

That one has me completely baffled, Quantum Weirdness.

Your user name reminds me of this song:

[tabibito]

Matthew 23:13

[whag]

Believe me, I get the pretending not to see it point. This whole thing has troubled me to no end, even to losing sleep...

If it was the message that you thought it was, you wouldn't be troubled or losing sleep over it. You be at peace and thankful rather than vetting your vision here.

If I received a similar vision, I would keep the precious event to myself. All you've done is trigger your doubt all over again by publicizing it here. Don't be troubled. Just pray everyone gets a personal miracle to allay doubt just as you did.

[seer]

If it was the message that you thought it was, you wouldn't be troubled or losing sleep over it. You be at peace and thankful rather than vetting your vision here.

If I received a similar vision, I would keep the precious event to myself. All you've done is trigger your doubt all over again by publicizing it here. Don't be troubled. Just pray everyone gets a personal miracle to allay doubt just as you did.

Well Wag, first it wasn't a "vision" it was a physical event. Second, you may be correct about posting it. To be honest I didn't know what to do.

[tabibito]

Sit tight and wait. If my assessment was right, (not that I doubt it, just that you have no reason to believe me) something will happen to confirm what I said. And this wouldn't be something you're expected to do anything about - just a get ready for interesting things signal.

[whag]

Well Wag, first it wasn't a "vision" it was a physical event.

Sorry, I meant physical event, not vision. A miracle is a physical event.

Second, you may be correct about posting it. To be honest I didn't know what to do.

You *should* know what to do if it was a sign to allay doubt in you: accept it and be at peace. That a miracle that was meant to fortify your faith instead has you troubled is all the more reason for me to doubt it.

I think God only violates the laws of nature for people with the frame of mind to process and accept such signs. You should be sleeping like a baby.

[seer]

Sit tight and wait. If my assessment was right, (not that I doubt it, just that you have no reason to believe me) something will happen to confirm what I said. And this wouldn't be something you're expected to do anything about - just a get ready for interesting things signal.

What did you say? You are scaring me! ; )

[seer]

Sorry, I meant physical event, not vision. A miracle is a physical event.

Yes

You *should* know what to do if it was a sign to allay doubt in you: accept it and be at peace. That a miracle that was meant to fortify your faith instead has you troubled is all the more reason for me to doubt it.

I think God only violates the laws of nature for people with the frame of mind to process and accept such signs. You should be sleeping like a baby.

It is changing, I'm much better with it now. Actually grateful for the sign.

[tabibito]

Moses ran away from his staff.
Miracles are unsettling by "nature", Whag. Particularly if the person hasn't got a background that allows them to accept them.
You should have seen my poor Lutheran Bible study group - and they only met with low key prophecy.

[whag]

Yes




It is changing, I'm much better with it now. Actually grateful for the sign.

Good! I was beginning to think the miracle was wasted on you. I'd refrain from telling it anymore, especially if you promote the idea that resurrection apologetics is enough to sustain faith. I'd be more interested to hear what doubts were plaguing you beforehand.

[whag]

Moses ran away from his staff.
Miracles are unsettling by "nature", Whag. Particularly if the person hasn't got a background that allows them to accept them.

I would think a religious person, especially someone with a burning bush encounter, wouldn't be especially unsettled. Moses definitely had a "background that allowed him to accept them," having conversed with the divine. If he didn't, who would qualify as having that "background"?

You should have seen my poor Lutheran Bible study group - and they only met with low key prophecy.

What would I have seen? People being unsettled by news of a prophecy come to pass?

[tabibito]

I would think a religious person, especially someone with a burning bush encounter, wouldn't be especially unsettled.

On the contrary - Seer has a solid base in Arminianism from Calvinism, his training is firmly based in the idea that God doesn't do miracles these days. (albeit there was a short side trip via Charismaticism - not enough to impact (which is a good thing).

What would I have seen? People being unsettled by news of a prophecy come to pass?

Their reactions to prophecy, yes. They were almost used to it after about 6 months. But like I said, extremely low key - I wasn't sure that they had even noticed at first. Again - all their training had taught them that God doesn't do things like that these days.

Moses definitely had a "background that allowed him to accept them," having conversed with the divine.

Yep, that's what you would expect. But the first time his staff turned into a snake, he shot through. And that happened while he was having a conversation with God.

[whag]

On the contrary - Seer has a solid base in Arminianism from Calvinism, his training is firmly based in the idea that God doesn't do miracles these days. (albeit there was a short side trip via Charismaticism - not enough to impact (which is a good thing).

If he believed miracles don't happen anymore, he wouldn't be asking for a miracle. That's why it's more prudent to investigate his specific doubts that would lead him to such an emotional request.

Their reactions to prophecy, yes. They were almost used to it after about 6 months. But like I said, extremely low key - I wasn't sure that they had even noticed at first. Again - all their training had taught them that God doesn't do things like that these days.

What prophecy are you talking about?

Yep, that's what you would expect. But the first time his staff turned into a snake, he shot through. And that happened while he was having a conversation with God.

The conversation with God would be far more astounding than a staff turned snake. The sudden appearance of a snake would make any mammal take flight. Millions of years of flight instinct surely explain our fearful reactions, not a miracle taking place within a much more mesmerizing miracle (convo with the divine).