Originally posted by Mr. Black
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Forum Rules: Here
This forum is open discussion between atheists and all theists to defend and debate their views on religion or non-religion. Please respect that this is a Christian-owned forum and refrain from gratuitous blasphemy. VERY wide leeway is given in range of expression and allowable behavior as compared to other areas of the forum, and moderation is not overly involved unless necessary. Please keep this in mind. Atheists who wish to interact with theists in a way that does not seek to undermine theistic faith may participate in the World Religions Department. Non-debate question and answers and mild and less confrontational discussions can take place in General Theistics.
Forum Rules: Here
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Can we trust what God says?
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Originally posted by Christianbookworm View PostUhhh... I don't know how many people go for that view of inspiration. He didn't dictate word for word!
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Originally posted by Cerebrum123 View PostI don't see where Mr. Black claimed what you said. He merely said that God is ultimately the author. He didn't speculate on the method God used to get His message across.If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!
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Originally posted by Cerebrum123 View PostI don't see where Mr. Black claimed what you said. He merely said that God is ultimately the author. He didn't speculate on the method God used to get His message across.
If it's not word for word, the obvious question is "why not?" What's being omitted from the original message?
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Originally posted by Christianbookworm View PostUhhh... I don't know how many people go for that view of inspiration.
Originally posted by Christianbookworm View PostHe didn't dictate word for word!
But just so we're clear, what do you mean by "dictate word for word"? Are you talking about God audibly speaking to the scribe?Where is the wise man? Where is the scribe? Where is the debater of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? (1 Corinthians 1:20)
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Originally posted by Mr. Black View PostThat, in and of itself, is irrelevant. Truth is not decided by doing a nose count.
Cerebrum123 saw my point.
But just so we're clear, what do you mean by "dictate word for word"? Are you talking about God audibly speaking to the scribe?If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!
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Originally posted by Christianbookworm View PostI know, it's just that I couldn't quite get what you meant. Yeah, I suppose I thought you were refering to God audibly telling the writer exactly what to write.
Originally posted by Christianbookworm View PostI wonder what the scholarly view is?Where is the wise man? Where is the scribe? Where is the debater of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? (1 Corinthians 1:20)
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Originally posted by Mr. Black View PostYeah, that's not what I meant, lol. I took my claim from verses like 2 Peter 1:21 & 2 Timothy 3:16. In 2 Timothy 3:16 the words "inspired by God" are translated from the Greek theopneustos (literally "God-breathed"), which means the words which the scribe wrote were God's very words, whether He spoke them audibly, or moved the scribe via the Holy Spirit to write them down.
I've heard different views over the years from different scholars. If a view can't be supported by Scripture I see no reason to accept it.If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!
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2 Peter 1:20 knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation, 21 for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.
?? Where does it say that everything in the Bible is inspired by God?1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
.⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
Scripture before Tradition:
but that won't prevent others from
taking it upon themselves to deprive you
of the right to call yourself Christian.
⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
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Originally posted by Mr. BlackYeah, that's not what I meant, lol. I took my claim from verses like 2 Peter 1:21 & 2 Timothy 3:16. In 2 Timothy 3:16 the words "inspired by God" are translated from the Greek theopneustos (literally "God-breathed"), which means the words which the scribe wrote were God's very words,whether He spoke them audibly, or moved the scribe via the Holy Spirit to write them down.
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Originally posted by whag View Post"A human was the scribe that God used to physically write it down."
If it's not word for word, the obvious question is "why not?" What's being omitted from the original message?
We're discussing whether or not dictation was used, not whether anything was omitted or not. God doesn't have to verbally dictate things to give His message to a human author.
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Originally posted by Cerebrum123 View Post
We're discussing whether or not dictation was used, not whether anything was omitted or not. God doesn't have to verbally dictate things to give His message to a human author.
Presumably God speaks through words, yes?
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Originally posted by whag View PostSee post above. Audibility has nothing to do with it. Dictation of a purely mental transmission would still require translating the received units of information--God's words--into spoken words. Also, you're forgetting the scribe isn't the original receiver. The scribe merely wrote down the oral tradition that his illiterate ancestors told for centuries.
Presumably God speaks through words, yes?
Words, while often reported as a means of communication, are not the only way to communicate. Except in certain circumstances(usually prophets, whom I would expect a form of dictation), there wasn't exactly an order to "go out and write x". In the cases not concerning prophets, I can admit that I do not fully understand how inspiration works.
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Originally posted by Cerebrum123 View PostGiven that an orally transmitted report can be just as inspired as a written one, your comment about "illiterate ancestors" appears to be just a way for you to . Literacy, or lack there of is entirely irrelevant to this matter. Please tell me you don't think that literacy is some kind of prerequisite for intelligence.
Originally posted by Cerebrum123 View PostWords, while often reported as a means of communication, are not the only way to communicate. Except in certain circumstances(usually prophets, whom I would expect a form of dictation), there wasn't exactly an order to "go out and write x". In the cases not concerning prophets, I can admit that I do not fully understand how inspiration works.
If it's not verbatim, the translation has changed. The question is what's changed from the original transmission?
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