Breaking Bad Religion

[NormATive]

And what did God have to say about the Jews forgetting who God was, using the Jewish scriptures themselves?

We have not forgotten. We have moved on. You should, too.

NORM

[lilpixieofterror]

We have not forgotten. We have moved on. You should, too.

As in 'forget all that stuff we disagree with, we'll just ignore it and pick out the parts we want to hear.'

I guess that is 'moving on' using Norm's definitions that is...

So I take it you don't want to hear that part of the Jewish scriptures so you just throw it out the window? Nice!

[Spartacus]

I disagree that the myths are meaningless. Six thousand years of Jewish history and philosophy back me up on that, I think!

NORM

If they are all only nice stories, no resurrection, no Trinity-- then out with it all. Christianity isn't just "wouldn't it be nice if everyone were nice to each other"-- it's "loving your neighbor has been written into the very fabric of the universe, and the one who wrote it there also showed it to us through his Incarnation."

[NormATive]

As in 'forget all that stuff we disagree with, we'll just ignore it and pick out the parts we want to hear."

I guess that is 'moving on' using Norm's definitions that is...

So I take it you don't want to hear that part of the Jewish scriptures so you just throw it out the window? Nice!

Why do you insist on trivializing everything? Can you not recognize that other people process their religious beliefs differently? Or are you just that shallow?

NORM

[lilpixieofterror]

Why do you insist on trivializing everything?

It's trivial to throw out the parts of a book or religion you don't want to hear and just pick up the parts you want to hear? Gosh Norm, I didn't know that is how the world operated, so can I just pick out the rules and regulations of the military that I like and throw out and/or ignore the ones I don't like? I also really don't like those nasty laws of physics when I end up smacking my toes against something. Can I throw them out too?

Can you not recognize that other people process their religious beliefs differently? Or are you just that shallow?

It's shallow to point out when somebody is ignoring things they don't want to hear and just picking and choosing what they want to hear? That's shallow to you? So I take it that you didn't want to hear what God had to say about those who do that, so you just threw that part away, eh? What's the point of following any religion or view when you can just cut it up to mean whatever you want it to mean? Why do we need those nasty rules and philosophy things? They just get in the way. Sorry Norm, but I think I prefer to keep the rules and laws of all of Christianity and not just pick and choose ones I like and ignoring ones I don't like.

[NormATive]

If they are all only nice stories, no resurrection, no Trinity-- then out with it all.

I never quite understood this line of reasoning. Particularly when it is derived from a single, solitary verse in the Christian Testament. I strongly disagree that the Christian message is devoid of meaning without the supernatural parts. In fact, I find it quite powerful without them. Imagine: cruelty, selfishness, immorality and greed overcome with nothing but love.

That's powerful stuff in my book!

"loving your neighbor has been written into the very fabric of the universe, and the one who wrote it there also showed it to us through his Incarnation."

What exactly does that mean to you in real terms, Spartacus? And how does believing in miracles make that any more meaningful?

NORM

[NormATive]

It's trivial to throw out the parts of a book or religion you don't want to hear and just pick up the parts you want to hear? Gosh Norm, I didn't know that is how the world operated, so can I just pick out the rules and regulations of the military that I like and throw out and/or ignore the ones I don't like? I also really don't like those nasty laws of physics when I end up smacking my toes against something. Can I throw them out too?

If I didn't already know that your entire MO on this forum is just to cause trouble and act all bad-ass, I would take the time to give you an answer. But, with you, it's a waste of time.

I started this thread, and it was going along quite nicely. Please leave so we can have a decent discussion.

Thanks,

NORM

[Spartacus]

I never quite understood this line of reasoning. Particularly when it is derived from a single, solitary verse in the Christian Testament. I strongly disagree that the Christian message is devoid of meaning without the supernatural parts. In fact, I find it quite powerful without them. Imagine: cruelty, selfishness, immorality and greed overcome with nothing but love.

That's powerful stuff in my book!

I don't need to imagine-- it's already done. It was done 2000 years ago. Done. Fact. Not inspiring idea. Solid fact.

What exactly does that mean to you in real terms, Spartacus? And how does believing in miracles make that any more meaningful?

NORM

Miracles are only to be expected when we recognize that the laws of the universe are themselves subject to yet-higher laws.

[lilpixieofterror]

If I didn't already know that your entire MO on this forum is just to cause trouble and act all bad-ass, I would take the time to give you an answer. But, with you, it's a waste of time.

Of course my 'Mo' is to 'cause trouble' because you don't want to answer the question or arguments because you want to turn Christianity into some wishy washy thing where you throw out what you don't want to hear and only pick out the parts you want to hear. When it is pointed out to you that is just what you are doing, you get all defensive and angry instead of answering the charges. Showing me that my charges are dead accurate and you just can't face any sort of controversy against your arguments. Are you really so thin skinned that you can't stand any sort of challenges to your claims? Wow... I didn't know you were that sensitive and unable to stand up for what you believe. Guess that's why you instead choose the version of religion where you ignore the things that challenge you and points out when you are wrong?

I started this thread, and it was going along quite nicely. Please leave so we can have a decent discussion.

AKA "Please stop challenging my claims and arguments and let me turn your religion into something without a backbone that just is full of feel good stuff without that nasty sin and bad stuff that makes people feel bad!"

I take it you don't like it when your arguments are shown as being this bad? I take it you really don't want to hear what God has to say about those who just pick and choose what they want to hear and turn their backs on their Lord, eh? Ignore it at your own risk Norm, but I think I prefer to take the charges seriously and not just ignore what I don't want to hear for the 'feel good' stuff. I prefer a religion that challenges me and makes me face those bads as well as the goods instead of the one that just is about 'feel good' without anything else. If you don't want that, that's fine, but don't try to turn my religion into some wishy washy nonsense, where those bad 'sin' concepts are thrown to the wayside because they don't make you feel good.

BTW might want to pick a more honest title, perhaps "Creating Bad Religion" instead?

[NormATive]

Of course my 'Mo' is to 'cause trouble' ...blah, blah, blah....

Please leave.

Thanks,

NORM

[lilpixieofterror]

Please leave.

Yep, Norm doesn't like to be challenged and prefers to just shut up everybody who points out the flaws of his arguments. Bye bye and don't worry, my points are still there and will not end up going way because you don't like them.

[Catholicity]

Umm Norm...this isn't exactly a blog spot. FYI. You can't start something in a known debate area and not anticipate not having it challenged.

[NormATive]

Umm Norm...this isn't exactly a blog spot. FYI. You can't start something in a known debate area and not anticipate not having it challenged.

Read through the thread, Catholicity. Plenty of people have been arguing against me all the way. LPOT has a track record, and I think you know it. I just don't like the insult comedy routine.

Fire away! I'm not afraid of challenging ideas. I just like civil discourse.

NORM

[NormATive]

Yep, Norm doesn't like to be challenged and prefers to just shut up everybody who points out the flaws of his arguments. Bye bye and don't worry, my points are still there and will not end up going way because you don't like them.

Thanks for honoring my request.

NORM

[NormATive]

I don't need to imagine-- it's already done. It was done 2000 years ago. Done. Fact. Not inspiring idea. Solid fact.

I'm not quite sure this answers my question. Why do you feel that the Gospel of Christ is dependent on belief in miracles? Why isn't the message of Christ enough?

Miracles are only to be expected when we recognize that the laws of the universe are themselves subject to yet-higher laws.

Or, perhaps it's how the authors of the Bible interpreted the Universe at the time. There are other cultures who had similar supernatural beliefs. Eventually, these fell away when science revealed the natural causes.

Again, I just don't see how belief in the supernatural is all or nothing in respect to the Gospel message.

NORM