Breaking Bad Religion

[NormATive]

Only there's a flaw in your chronology. Paul, who I'm certain Ehrman would vehemently insist came way before the gospels, was the first to establish some of the richest Christological tradition that even, in some cases, went beyond the theology expressed in the gospels. And Paul answered to the Jerusalem church when it came to the doctrine he preached (Galatians 2), where we can assume the movement first began, hence, Paul's Christology reflects the first remnants of what came out of Jerusalem. Strange that Ehrman doesn't know this (of course, I'm assuming he doesn't address this since I haven't read the book).

It's pretty embarrassing making derogatory comments on a book you haven't read yet, isn't it!?

NORM

[seanD]

It's pretty embarrassing making derogatory comments on a book you haven't read yet, isn't it!?

NORM

I don't see where I made any derogatory comment against Ehrman in the post you quoted. Nonetheless, going back to what I said, and in light of robrecht's post after that, it seems maybe you misunderstood what Ehrman was specifically arguing. So I think my mistake was commenting on your summary of the book without reading the book myself.

[NormATive]

I don't see where I made any derogatory comment against Ehrman in the post you quoted. Nonetheless, going back to what I said, and in light of robrecht's post after that, it seems maybe you misunderstood what Ehrman was specifically arguing. So I think my mistake was commenting on your summary of the book without reading the book myself.

Regardless, this is beside the point of this thread. It's about how Christianity can evolve TODAY. Since it is quite evident basic, fundamental and foundational assumptions about the nature and person of Jesus evolved over time, what's keeping us from doing that now?

NORM

[seanD]

Regardless, this is beside the point of this thread. It's about how Christianity can evolve TODAY. Since it is quite evident basic, fundamental and foundational assumptions about the nature and person of Jesus evolved over time, what's keeping us from doing that now?

NORM

It's always relevant here when someone gets Christian history incorrect, thus they should expect to be checked when they do. Whether it's relevant to your main point or not doesn't matter.

[NormATive]

It's always relevant here when someone gets Christian history incorrect, thus they should expect to be checked when they do. Whether it's relevant to your main point or not doesn't matter.

No one got anything incorrect, Sean. How about answering the question?

NORM

[seanD]

No one got anything incorrect, Sean. How about answering the question?

NORM

Evolution relative to what? Putting aside the evolution in the gospel premise you espoused in the OP, which was incorrect, it's been 2,000 years since Christian orthodox doctrine was established in the church. There's been conflicts between Christian sects about what constitutes orthodoxy since that time, but I'm unclear what evolution we would expect 2,000 years later.

[NormATive]

Evolution relative to what? Putting aside the evolution in the gospel premise you espoused in the OP, which was incorrect, it's been 2,000 years since Christian orthodox doctrine was established in the church. There's been conflicts between Christian sects about what constitutes orthodoxy since that time, but I'm unclear what evolution we would expect 2,000 years later.

For example; doing away with superstitious dogma such as belief in the virgin birth, the physical resurrection, the trinity, etc. IOW, expunging from the story of Jesus' gospel message all of the baggage that prevents normal people from considering the message of Christianity, which can be summarized as such: treat one another with love and respect. Don't allow dogma to rule your life. The Sabbath is made for man; not the other way around.

Simple.

NORM

[seanD]

For example; doing away with superstitious dogma such as belief in the virgin birth, the physical resurrection, the trinity, etc. IOW, expunging from the story of Jesus' gospel message all of the baggage that prevents normal people from considering the message of Christianity, which can be summarized as such: treat one another with love and respect. Don't allow dogma to rule your life. The Sabbath is made for man; not the other way around.

Simple.

NORM

But these were the original tenets of the Judeo-Christian movement from the first century. So you wouldn't have an evolution but a diversion from the roots of the faith. In some circles of what is classified as liberal Christianity today (and this identification is often self-proclaimed), they have indeed done away with many of these beliefs.

[NormATive]

But these were the original tenets of the Judeo-Christian movement from the first century. So you wouldn't have an evolution but a diversion from the roots of the faith. In some circles of what is classified as liberal Christianity today (and this identification is often self-proclaimed), they have indeed done away with many of these beliefs.

Nevertheless, it is a necessary evolutionary process if you wish to remain relevant to the rest of society.

Reformed Jews realized that the superstitions and belief in miracles was an impediment to moving forward, thus reinterpreted these mystical things with altruism and symbolic meaning. We allow scientific knowledge to inform our system of belief, focusing on what is more important (how we treat each other, society and the world) rather than clinging to old superstitions.

Christianity faces a difficult challenge because there are many like you who wish to keep on believing in miracles and the supernatural. Do you think that your faith is meaningless without this belief in mysticism?

What is more important, loving your neighbor as yourself or believing that Jesus was born of a virgin?

NORM

[lilpixieofterror]

For example; doing away with superstitious dogma such as belief in the virgin birth, the physical resurrection, the trinity, etc. IOW, expunging from the story of Jesus' gospel message all of the baggage that prevents normal people from considering the message of Christianity, which can be summarized as such: treat one another with love and respect. Don't allow dogma to rule your life. The Sabbath is made for man; not the other way around.

Simple.

NORM

In other words, turn Christianity into some wishy washy thing that Norm likes that isn't Christian at all.

[NormATive]

In other words, turn Christianity into some wishy washy thing that Norm likes that isn't Christian at all.

Loving your neighbor as yourself is "wishy-washy?" So, who do we have to thank for that totally wishy-washy philosophy??

I would hardly call Hillel wishy-washy. In his day, he was a man's man!

NORM

[Spartacus]

Loving your neighbor as yourself is "wishy-washy?" So, who do we have to thank for that totally wishy-washy philosophy??

I would hardly call Hillel wishy-washy. In his day, he was a man's man!

NORM

It's not about the ethics you propose, it's about turning history into meaningless myth.

[NormATive]

It's not about the ethics you propose, it's about turning history into meaningless myth.

I disagree that the myths are meaningless. Six thousand years of Jewish history and philosophy back me up on that, I think!

NORM

[lilpixieofterror]

Loving your neighbor as yourself is "wishy-washy?" So, who do we have to thank for that totally wishy-washy philosophy??

Sweety, trying to separate the foundations of Christianity from the reason why you love your neighbor as you love yourself is wishy washy dear. Hey, look at that, I can be as condensing and talk down to you as you do to everybody else.

I would hardly call Hillel wishy-washy. In his day, he was a man's man!

What is the reason that you love your neighbor as you love yourself, as Jesus puts it Norm? How about I go and quote him on it:

"Hearing that Jesus had silenced the Sadducees, the Pharisees got together. One of them, an expert in the law, tested him with this question: “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”

Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”
Matthew 22:34-40, NIV

Why do you want to pull out the 'love your neighbor as you love yourself' and totally ignore the first part of loving God with all of your heart, soul, and mind? It is because you want to turn Christianity from what it is all about and into some sort of wishy washy thing Norm. You can't pull out one part of it and totally ignore the parts you don't want to hear.

[lilpixieofterror]

I disagree that the myths are meaningless. Six thousand years of Jewish history and philosophy back me up on that, I think!

And what did God have to say about the Jews forgetting who God was, using the Jewish scriptures themselves?