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  • Originally posted by NormATive View Post
    Nevertheless, it is a necessary evolutionary process if you wish to remain relevant to the rest of society.
    The point is Christianity is only relevant to society as it presents the gospel. Including all the "superstions" you seem to object to. I am already in one secular club, I don't need another. Christianity call folks out of society into eternity.
    Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

    Comment


    • Originally posted by NormATive View Post
      Nevertheless, it is a necessary evolutionary process if you wish to remain relevant to the rest of society.
      Jesus taught that Christianity would never be relevant to society. In fact, not only did he teach the complete opposite (just one example: John 15:19), but the fact he was crucified exemplifies that fact.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Jedidiah View Post
        There are not gods, only one God, creator of everything.
        According to the Jewish Bible, the Tanakh, there are other gods. The Second Commandment (לא יהיה־לך אלהים אחרים על־פני - You shall have no other gods before me) says that G-d is the only god Jews shall worship. In fact, the Deity actually explains that "He is a jealous god." If there were no other gods, why would he say this? It is true that according to Judaism, G-d created everything, although some Hebrew scholars think there were other gods around - there is clearly a discussion among the "deities" in the Hebrew text. Even Christians acknowledge this. I've seen commentaries that claim these other gods present at creation are Jesus and the Holy Spirit. That makes 3, at least.

        The Kabbalists have all kinds of wild theories! Oy Vey! It's enough to scramble your brains.

        I know, I know - the Trinity makes everything Kosher! Ha! Nevertheless, the Jewish Testament, at least, says there are many gods. So, I am not "wrong." It's just a different interpretation from you. Your trinity rolls these extra gods into one.

        Originally posted by Jedidiah View Post
        If He whispers in my ear that is revelation. If I write it down for others it remains revelation, that is it has been revealed. The whole "every word, punctuation mark and letter is literally God's word" is sort of silly. I read the Bible as translated into English. The words, punctuation marks, and letters are all different. We clearly see divine revelation differently. Some people seem to almost worship the Bible, that does not mean they are correct.
        So, you are saying that the Bible is flawed? How do you know which parts are the flawed parts?


        Originally posted by Jedidiah View Post
        Let us say you want to get to my house. We do not speak or write the same language. I send directions in my tongue and you have someone translate into your tongue. Will you be able to find my house if you are of normal intelligence? That is my revelation to you.
        If I want correct directions, I should learn your language. Your example illustrates the point. I've been in many foreign countries. The number one mistake made in travel involves mistranslation of directions! I wound up at Versaille when I asked for directions to the Louvre.

        NORM
        When the missionaries came to Africa they had the Bible and we had the land. They said 'Let us pray.' We closed our eyes. When we opened them we had the Bible and they had the land. - Bishop Desmond Tutu

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Jedidiah View Post
          Yep. Jesus Christ is the Way, The Truth, and the Light. No one comes to the Father but through Him.

          How about you address what I wrote instead of some strawman. What I labeled sin was the putting sexual pleasure above right behavior.

          Nope. Sin is sin. Just as heterosexual sex outside of marriage is sin, all homosexual sex is sin. That was my claim and you made up a straw man to shoot down. Was I not clear enough for you. Sorry about that.

          It is still true that the condemnation of homosexuality in the Bible never had anything to do with whether it was a "lifestyle choice" or whether you were "born that way". Men are all born sinful. ("men" means human beings not male human beings)
          Okay, I guess your are content to remain in the Middle Ages. 'Nuff said.

          NORM
          When the missionaries came to Africa they had the Bible and we had the land. They said 'Let us pray.' We closed our eyes. When we opened them we had the Bible and they had the land. - Bishop Desmond Tutu

          Comment


          • Originally posted by NormATive View Post
            Okay, I guess your are content to remain in the Middle Ages. 'Nuff said.

            NORM
            Could someone open a window? I'm practically choking on this guy's smug.
            Don't call it a comeback. It's a riposte.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by NormATive View Post
              So, you are saying that the Bible is flawed? How do you know which parts are the flawed parts?
              No I am not saying the Bible is flawed. What did I say that made you think that I thought such a thing.
              Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

              Comment


              • Originally posted by NormATive View Post
                Okay, I guess your are content to remain in the Middle Ages. 'Nuff said.
                If those things are living in the Middle Ages, I'll stay there thanks.
                Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Jedidiah View Post
                  No I am not saying the Bible is flawed. What did I say that made you think that I thought such a thing.
                  This:

                  The whole "every word, punctuation mark and letter is literally God's word" is sort of silly. I read the Bible as translated into English. The words, punctuation marks, and letters are all different. We clearly see divine revelation differently. Some people seem to almost worship the Bible, that does not mean they are correct.
                  Either the Bible is "G-d's Word," or it is man's words about G-d. It can't be both. By your comment above, I would put you in the second camp. Therefore, if it is written by human hands, there would necessarily have to be flaws. Which parts of the Bible do you consider correct, and which do you view with suspicion?

                  NORM
                  When the missionaries came to Africa they had the Bible and we had the land. They said 'Let us pray.' We closed our eyes. When we opened them we had the Bible and they had the land. - Bishop Desmond Tutu

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Jedidiah View Post
                    If those things are living in the Middle Ages, I'll stay there thanks.
                    Yes, believing that homosexuality is a "sin" is Middle Ages thinking. You may as well say it is demon possession.

                    NORM
                    When the missionaries came to Africa they had the Bible and we had the land. They said 'Let us pray.' We closed our eyes. When we opened them we had the Bible and they had the land. - Bishop Desmond Tutu

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by NormATive View Post
                      Yes, believing that homosexuality is a "sin" is Middle Ages thinking. You may as well say it is demon possession.

                      NORM
                      For the sarcastically impaired the following is said in jest

                      Gotta say, I really feel as though you understand and value my input on this topic.

                      Don't call it a comeback. It's a riposte.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by NormATive View Post
                        Either the Bible is "G-d's Word," or it is man's words about G-d. It can't be both. By your comment above, I would put you in the second camp. Therefore, if it is written by human hands, there would necessarily have to be flaws. Which parts of the Bible do you consider correct, and which do you view with suspicion?
                        This is just ignorant. Because it is translated does not mean it is flawed.
                        Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

                        Comment


                        • Norm, you suggest that all the "superstitious dogma such as belief in the virgin birth, the physical resurrection, the trinity," and so forth, is a bad thing. On the other hand I see the desire to eliminate "Jesus' gospel message all of the baggage that prevents normal people from considering the message of Christianity," Is a sign of the wickedness of modern society. The call to "treat one another with love and respect" is not the gospel. The gospel is literally the "good news" that Christ can save us from slavery to sin. Some of you like being enslaved to sin so it seems like a negative message. That is why you want to eliminate the essence of the gospel.
                          Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Jedidiah View Post
                            Simply adding to the statement that every Christian recognizes the Bible as divine revelation. I would have expected some more weasel words from you on the subject. You will have to go one step further if you want to argue my statement.
                            No need to add more. You simply attributed a statement to me that I never made.
                            Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                            Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                            But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                            go with the flow the river knows . . .

                            Frank

                            I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                              No need to add more. You simply attributed a statement to me that I never made.
                              It was however a thought that I anticipated from you - weasel words I expected. If you accept my statement as it stood I apologize. That apology does not apply if there are in fact more such weasel words on the topic.
                              Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Jedidiah View Post
                                Norm, you suggest that all the "superstitious dogma such as belief in the virgin birth, the physical resurrection, the trinity," and so forth, is a bad thing. On the other hand I see the desire to eliminate "Jesus' gospel message all of the baggage that prevents normal people from considering the message of Christianity," Is a sign of the wickedness of modern society. The call to "treat one another with love and respect" is not the gospel. The gospel is literally the "good news" that Christ can save us from slavery to sin. Some of you like being enslaved to sin so it seems like a negative message. That is why you want to eliminate the essence of the gospel.
                                We disagree as to what Jesus' message was. I am probably no more "sinful" than you are, so that canard is a load of crap. When I read the totality of Jesus' words, the what you call "mammy-pamby" love and kindness shines through more than the apocalyptic.

                                NORM
                                When the missionaries came to Africa they had the Bible and we had the land. They said 'Let us pray.' We closed our eyes. When we opened them we had the Bible and they had the land. - Bishop Desmond Tutu

                                Comment

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