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What Is Man?

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  • What Is Man?

    The Christian / Hebrew view is that man is the unique image bearer of God. Loved by God and created for a purpose. With inherent worth and value, sharing characteristics with others in the animal kingdom, but different, more. A creature with hope. If that is not the case, then men are the result of blind and purposeless forces that did not have him in mind. With no more inherent value than a common house fly (A Rat Is a Pig Is a Dog Is a Boy), with no overriding purpose or goal - final hopelessness. Nothingness and nonexistence being the fate of all living creatures.
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

  • #2
    (Side comment: Very nice new picture.)
    "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

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    • #3
      Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
      (Side comment: Very nice new picture.)

      My granddaughter on the day she was born, almost a year ago now!
      Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by seer View Post
        The Christian / Hebrew view is that man is the unique image bearer of God. Loved by God and created for a purpose. With inherent worth and value, sharing characteristics with others in the animal kingdom, but different, more. A creature with hope. If that is not the case, then men are the result of blind and purposeless forces that did not have him in mind.
        And therefore, what?

        Originally posted by seer View Post
        With no more inherent value than a common house fly
        So what? Value is just a human judgment, and whether God exists or not, it is a judgment we cannot avoid making. It would be nice if we could shift the responsibility for that judgment onto some external entity, but there is no necessary connection between what is nice and what is true.

        Originally posted by seer View Post
        Nothingness and nonexistence being the fate of all living creatures.
        It would be nice if that were not so. But as long as I do exist, I will accept responsibility for the choices I make, since I don't have the option of saying, "I'm just following God's orders."









        (A Rat Is a Pig Is a Dog Is a Boy), with no overriding purpose or goal - final hopelessness. Nothingness and nonexistence being the fate of all living creatures.[/QUOTE]

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Doug Shaver View Post
          So what? Value is just a human judgment, and whether God exists or not, it is a judgment we cannot avoid making. It would be nice if we could shift the responsibility for that judgment onto some external entity, but there is no necessary connection between what is nice and what is true.
          Yes, and that is the point. Whether humans have value is a completely subjective judgement, and meaningless.


          It would be nice if that were not so. But as long as I do exist, I will accept responsibility for the choices I make, since I don't have the option of saying, "I'm just following God's orders."
          But why accept responsibility for the choices you make? A lot of people don't, and they would be no more correct or incorrect than you.
          Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by seer View Post
            Whether humans have value is a completely subjective judgement, and meaningless.
            Do you make no subjective judgments? Or do you make them even though they are meaningless? Or do you make some distinction between subjective judgments that are meaningful and those that are meaningless? If so, how do they differ?

            Originally posted by seer View Post
            But why accept responsibility for the choices you make? A lot of people don't, and they would be no more correct or incorrect than you.
            I see what happens to people who don't accept responsibility. I don't want it to happen to me.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Doug Shaver View Post
              Do you make no subjective judgments? Or do you make them even though they are meaningless? Or do you make some distinction between subjective judgments that are meaningful and those that are meaningless? If so, how do they differ?
              Not all my judgements are meaningful. How I view and act towards my fellow man, based on divine principles, is. But in your world a Stalin or Mother Teresa come to the same end - dust. One is no more objectively correct with their moral choices than the other.


              I see what happens to people who don't accept responsibility. I don't want it to happen to me.
              So fear restrains you? But let's be honest some people who don't take responsibility flourish.
              Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by seer View Post
                The Christian / Hebrew view is that man is the unique image bearer of God. Loved by God and created for a purpose. With inherent worth and value, sharing characteristics with others in the animal kingdom, but different, more. A creature with hope. If that is not the case, then men are the result of blind and purposeless forces that did not have him in mind. With no more inherent value than a common house fly (A Rat Is a Pig Is a Dog Is a Boy), with no overriding purpose or goal - final hopelessness. Nothingness and nonexistence being the fate of all living creatures.
                What a bleak view this is. It basically admits that only hope and purpose motivate you to keep a cheerful disposition. "Hope" is kind of a nebulous concept. Purpose is so vague, even Christians argue about what it means. For instance, Rick Warren was greatly criticized for espousing human purpose because of the implications of it (e.g., do stillborn babies have a purpose?).

                What specifically do hope and purpose mean to you?
                Last edited by whag; 05-16-2014, 01:16 PM.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by whag View Post
                  What a bleak view this is. It basically admits that only hope and purpose motivate you to keep a cheerful disposition. "Hope" is kind of a nebulous concept. Purpose is so vague, even Christians argue about what it means. For instance, Rick Warren was greatly criticized for espousing human purpose because of the implications of it (e.g., do stillborn babies have a purpose?).

                  What specifically do hope and purpose mean to you?
                  We were created for a purpose: To love God and our fellow man. We have hope: Hope of a future resurrection and everlasting life, in perfect bliss and joy.
                  Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    We don't need to be created to love in order to love.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by seer View Post
                      We were created for a purpose: To love God and our fellow man.
                      What about animals? The semblance of love there seems meaningful enough to me without having to stamp it with divine purpose.

                      Originally posted by seer
                      We have hope: Hope of a future resurrection and everlasting life, in perfect bliss and joy.
                      Why couldn't this perfect world have come first? Some Christians hold that the fall was engineered and inevitable. That Jesus was always meant to rule a redesigned, utopic universe.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by whag View Post
                        What about animals? The semblance of love there seems meaningful enough to me without having to stamp it with divine purpose.
                        I have no problem with how you personally find temporal meaning. You have your way, Stalin his, Mao his, etc...

                        Why couldn't this perfect world have come first? Some Christians hold that the fall was engineered and inevitable. That Jesus was always meant to rule a redesigned, utopic universe.
                        Not on topic, but that would make aa interesting good new thread.
                        Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by seasanctuary View Post
                          We don't need to be created to love in order to love.
                          Except in your world love is no more than a chemical reaction, kind of like a good burp!
                          Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by seer View Post
                            I have no problem with how you personally find temporal meaning. You have your way, Stalin his, Mao his, etc...
                            Kierkegaard his, those who burned heretics theirs...

                            Your argument doesn't work when theists disagree about what objective meaning is. You might have a point, but you underscore it with cheap references to psychotic despots.



                            Originally posted by seer
                            Not on topic, but that would make aa interesting good new thread.
                            It couldn't be anymore on topic, since you're talking about purpose and meaning. If the fall was meant to unfold before perfection could be attained, you have a problem presenting a coherent definition of those two terms.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by seer View Post
                              Except in your world love is no more than a chemical reaction, kind of like a good burp!
                              It's funny that you'd react this way if you found out love is just chemistry. I think only those prone to dread and depression would.

                              Love has a lot to do with chemistry. If God wanted love to transcend chemistry, he wouldn't use chemistry to elicit religious feelings.

                              Comment

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