Did God have a first thought?
Announcement
Collapse
Apologetics 301 Guidelines
If you think this is the area where you tell everyone you are sorry for eating their lunch out of the fridge, it probably isn't the place for you
This forum is open discussion between atheists and all theists to defend and debate their views on religion or non-religion. Please respect that this is a Christian-owned forum and refrain from gratuitous blasphemy. VERY wide leeway is given in range of expression and allowable behavior as compared to other areas of the forum, and moderation is not overly involved unless necessary. Please keep this in mind. Atheists who wish to interact with theists in a way that does not seek to undermine theistic faith may participate in the World Religions Department. Non-debate question and answers and mild and less confrontational discussions can take place in General Theistics.
Forum Rules: Here
This forum is open discussion between atheists and all theists to defend and debate their views on religion or non-religion. Please respect that this is a Christian-owned forum and refrain from gratuitous blasphemy. VERY wide leeway is given in range of expression and allowable behavior as compared to other areas of the forum, and moderation is not overly involved unless necessary. Please keep this in mind. Atheists who wish to interact with theists in a way that does not seek to undermine theistic faith may participate in the World Religions Department. Non-debate question and answers and mild and less confrontational discussions can take place in General Theistics.
Forum Rules: Here
See more
See less
Infinite regress.
Collapse
X
-
Infinite Regress is a human construct to describe a type of infinity that would be within a greater reference of time.
Logos may be described as 'God's thought,' it would be awkward to describe it as God's first thought.Last edited by shunyadragon; 05-16-2014, 06:13 AM.Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:
go with the flow the river knows . . .
Frank
I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.
Comment
-
No. God is eternal - no beginning and no end - hence no 'firsts'."He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot
"Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman
My Personal Blog
My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)
Quill Sword
Comment
-
Of God, no? God is eternal - creation is not."He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot
"Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman
My Personal Blog
My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)
Quill Sword
Comment
-
Originally posted by crepuscule View PostSo an infinite regress -turtles all the way down- is possible?Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
Comment
-
Originally posted by JimL View PostDid God have a first thought?
Reducto ad absurdum: there were no first thought.
We can get further into what it mean for God to have thoughts, since this has to be distinguished from the way we humans have thoughts.
Comment
-
Originally posted by Leonhard View PostShort: He is his essence; His essence is existence; He is pure act; He has all perfections; God is timeless; A first thought implies a change in God going from 'first thought' to something else; A change in God implies an imperfection in the sense that there's some 'thought' His mind doesn't encompass. However since He has all perfections, His mind spans all thoughts.
Reducto ad absurdum: there were no first thought.
We can get further into what it mean for God to have thoughts, since this has to be distinguished from the way we humans have thoughts.Last edited by JimL; 05-17-2014, 07:58 AM.
Comment
-
Originally posted by JimL View PostSo would you define the nature of God, i.e the nature of his mind as fixed and determined. Was Gods idea to create the universe 14 billion years ago eternally fixed in the mind of God? It would seem by your description that God has no thoughts, that he is thoughtless and determined by his own nature which I think would be just as an apt description of the natural world, no? Pure act, perfect in itself, timeless in itself, and determined in itself.
Your problem is that you are trying to understand eternity by shoving into a time paradigm. "Fixed" is a temporal concept. "first" is also a temporal concept. You are imagining timelessness as "frozen in time" and it isn't. It's like trying to claim infinity is just a really big number.
Comment
-
Originally posted by JimL View PostDid God have a first thought?The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
Comment
-
Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostDid JimL ever have an original thought?Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
Comment
-
Originally posted by Sparko View PostYour problem is that you are trying to understand eternity by shoving into a time paradigm. "Fixed" is a temporal concept. "first" is also a temporal concept. You are imagining timelessness as "frozen in time" and it isn't. It's like trying to claim infinity is just a really big number.
Comment
-
Originally posted by JimL View PostFirst off, we don't even know how to define "time" accurately, or if there is even such a thing as time, therefore, for all we know, however "time" is defined, it could be that it fits just as easily into an eternal paradigm as it does a temporal one. Second, If you have an alternative view with regards to the eternal, being both active, eventful, as well as timeless, which it seems you have, I would certainly be interested in the explanation.
What I am saying is that we, as temporal beings, really don't have the capacity of understanding what an eternal being is like. It would be like you trying to imagine a 6-dimensional object and all you know is 3 dimensions (4 if you include time)
Trying to ask questions like "what was God's first thought" is basically the same thing. You are asking in terms of time (first, last, etc) when there is no time without God having created it in our universe. You are thinking of eternity as some Meta-time that is still time that contains our time. Like a nested Russian doll.
Comment
Related Threads
Collapse
Topics | Statistics | Last Post | ||
---|---|---|---|---|
Started by whag, 09-21-2023, 12:41 PM
|
48 responses
326 views
1 like
|
Last Post
by tabibito
Yesterday, 09:06 AM
|
||
Started by whag, 09-01-2023, 06:13 PM
|
77 responses
649 views
0 likes
|
Last Post
by tabibito
09-21-2023, 02:10 PM
|
||
Started by JimL, 08-13-2023, 08:16 PM
|
62 responses
393 views
0 likes
|
Last Post
by shunyadragon
09-18-2023, 06:41 PM
|
||
Started by whag, 08-09-2023, 06:39 PM
|
524 responses
2,686 views
0 likes
|
Last Post
by rogue06
Today, 10:26 AM
|
||
Started by Hypatia_Alexandria, 07-09-2023, 05:22 AM
|
300 responses
1,589 views
0 likes
|
Last Post
by eider
09-23-2023, 12:27 AM
|
Comment