Originally posted by 37818
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This forum is open discussion between atheists and all theists to defend and debate their views on religion or non-religion. Please respect that this is a Christian-owned forum and refrain from gratuitous blasphemy. VERY wide leeway is given in range of expression and allowable behavior as compared to other areas of the forum, and moderation is not overly involved unless necessary. Please keep this in mind. Atheists who wish to interact with theists in a way that does not seek to undermine theistic faith may participate in the World Religions Department. Non-debate question and answers and mild and less confrontational discussions can take place in General Theistics.
Forum Rules: Here
This forum is open discussion between atheists and all theists to defend and debate their views on religion or non-religion. Please respect that this is a Christian-owned forum and refrain from gratuitous blasphemy. VERY wide leeway is given in range of expression and allowable behavior as compared to other areas of the forum, and moderation is not overly involved unless necessary. Please keep this in mind. Atheists who wish to interact with theists in a way that does not seek to undermine theistic faith may participate in the World Religions Department. Non-debate question and answers and mild and less confrontational discussions can take place in General Theistics.
Forum Rules: Here
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“He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.
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Originally posted by One Bad Pig View PostYou realize, I hope, that this does not in any way anwer his question. If the doctrine fails on its own merits, why are you incapable of presenting it as such?“He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.
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Originally posted by Tassman View PostThe answer is self evident.Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom
Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
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Originally posted by Tassman View PostTortuous gobbledegook! Islam doesn't have this problem because it doesn't attempt to make Mohammad part of the godhead, as does orthodox Christianity with Jesus. Islam has the unambiguous doctrine: "there is no god but God". Simple and straight forward...not that I'm advocating Islam.
Twice the text says "with God."
In the text it says that the Word "was God . . . All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made."
Islam the Quran, Mormons the Book of Mormon. For which the Hebrew Proverb warned, ". . . Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.". . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
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Originally posted by Tassman View PostThe answer is self evident. You need to explain logically how “three” can be “one” and one can be “three”.
You need to show a contradiction. Now where is it said 3 is 1? By reason the three persons are not being said to be one person. Rather being said to be One God.
Now one person having two natures, human and divine, and those two natures not being mixed, and yet one person is another issue.Last edited by 37818; 05-14-2018, 09:44 AM.. . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
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Originally posted by Tassman View PostThe answer is self evident. You need to explain logically how “three” can be “one” and one can be “three”.
There you have it, three things that are one thing."What has the Church gained if it is popular, but there is no conviction, no repentance, no power?" - A.W. Tozer
"... there are two parties in Washington, the stupid party and the evil party, who occasionally get together and do something both stupid and evil, and this is called bipartisanship." - Everett Dirksen
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Originally posted by Zymologist View PostIt's obvious, at this point, that Tassman and JimL have no interest in honestly presenting what they're arguing against, so I think y'all are wasting your time in this thread. The phrase "deliberately obtuse" comes to mind.Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom
Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
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Originally posted by JimL View PostNo, we don't know that, if we did know that, there would be no debate about what if anything exists outside of our spacetime. Funny you think you know that.
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Originally posted by JimL View PostRight, and 3 can not be 3 and Not-3, i.e. it can't be 3 and 1 at the same time and same manner.
False, they are either persons or they are god. Again, just because you call it god, doesn't make your illogic all of a sudden logical. If I said that 3 distinct persons are 1 person you'd recognize the illogic of the statement. You saying the same thing but calling the 1 entity god rather than person doesn't make it any more logical unless you give a logical reason as to how being god changes the illogical nature of the statement. How is god different in that respect? Can he be 1 god and 25 distinct persons? 100 distinct persons? A 1000? Does anything go with you?
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Originally posted by One Bad Pig View PostConversation with you might be more fruitful if you actually bothered to process what others wrote rather than hammering away with your preconceived notions. Repeating something does not make it any more accurate.
Every attempt to coherently explain the Trinity ends up committing a formal heresy; most commonly Modalism whereby the Father, the Son, and the Spirit are considered different ‘modes’ of apprehending God. Just as Littlejoe's example is of different modes (or languages) in understanding a Treaty. Or the common example that a man can be simultaneously a father, a brother, a husband etc. All heretical!Last edited by Tassman; 05-14-2018, 11:54 PM.“He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.
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Originally posted by Tassman View PostThere is nothing to process. You have yet to explain how simultaneously “three” can be “one” and one can be “three”. Clearly you are unable to do this and for good reason, it's logical nonsense. It was a formula devised over the course of several centuries by the Church, in an attempt to explain how the man Jesus could also be God without fracturing Judaic monotheism.
Every attempt to coherently explain the Trinity ends up committing a formal heresy; most commonly Modalism whereby the Father, the Son, and the Spirit are considered different ‘modes’ of apprehending God. Just as Littlejoe's example is of different modes (or languages) in understanding a Treaty. Or the common example that a man can be simultaneously a father, a brother, a husband etc. All heretical!"What has the Church gained if it is popular, but there is no conviction, no repentance, no power?" - A.W. Tozer
"... there are two parties in Washington, the stupid party and the evil party, who occasionally get together and do something both stupid and evil, and this is called bipartisanship." - Everett Dirksen
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Originally posted by Tassman View PostThere is nothing to process. You have yet to explain how simultaneously “three” can be “one” and one can be “three”. Clearly you are unable to do this and for good reason, it's logical nonsense. It was a formula devised over the course of several centuries by the Church, in an attempt to explain how the man Jesus could also be God without fracturing Judaic monotheism.
Every attempt to coherently explain the Trinity ends up committing a formal heresy; most commonly Modalism whereby the Father, the Son, and the Spirit are considered different ‘modes’ of apprehending God. Just as Littlejoe's example is of different modes (or languages) in understanding a Treaty. Or the common example that a man can be simultaneously a father, a brother, a husband etc. All heretical!
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostNo every attempt by you to explain the Trinity (or twist it) results in heresy. Because you are just interested in burning straw men.“He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.
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