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This forum is open discussion between atheists and all theists to defend and debate their views on religion or non-religion. Please respect that this is a Christian-owned forum and refrain from gratuitous blasphemy. VERY wide leeway is given in range of expression and allowable behavior as compared to other areas of the forum, and moderation is not overly involved unless necessary. Please keep this in mind. Atheists who wish to interact with theists in a way that does not seek to undermine theistic faith may participate in the World Religions Department. Non-debate question and answers and mild and less confrontational discussions can take place in General Theistics.


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Nobody Dies for a Lie

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  • #46
    Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
    [Starlight] was a Christian until he seems to have discovered, to his shock, that there was a basic conflict between his religion and his lifestyle. His lifestyle turned out to be more important to him.
    I seriously doubt that there is anything in Starlight's lifestyle that is in conflict with Christianity other than the lack of belief in supernatural agents.
    Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

    mikewhitney: What if the speed of light changed when light is passing through water? ... I have 3 semesters of college Physics.

    Mountain Man: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
    Mountain Man: this is how liberals argue these days, with labels instead of ideas.

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    • #47
      Originally posted by Starlight View Post
      With regard to this sort of thing, it's worth noting that over the 20th century the average IQ massively increased (this observation is known as the Flynn Effect), and this has been attributed to everything from better nutrition to better schooling. A 'very smart' person by today's standards would run circles around historical thinkers who were judged 'very smart' in their own societies. Since I have a PhD in a science field I would estimate that it is probable that I am smarter than even the greatest historical Christian thinkers and probably by a significant margin.
      This is way off base. The average IQ massively increased over the 20th century...so what?

      There are number of things that could explain this:

      An increase in education for the average person, more people being educated means that the average score will go up. What about being better and more familiar test taking skills?

      I know plenty of PhDs who are dumber than a box of hammers. PhDs are given out waaaay too easily. Basically, if you put in your time...you will get a PhD. The reason is that kicking people out of graduate school looks bad to the administration. As a result, way too many people get PhDs that probably don't deserve them. Having a PhD doesn't mean anything.

      Now if you run a successful lab, publish in top tier journals, and are successful at getting grants in the academic setting...then we can talk. But just a PhD....meh.

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
        Eh, Starlight's pretty smart.
        I would say he's of average intelligence at best. I've seen nothing to convince me that he has even a mildly superior intellect.
        Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
        But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
        Than a fool in the eyes of God


        From "Fools Gold" by Petra

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by Roy View Post
          I seriously doubt that there is anything in Starlight's lifestyle that is in conflict with Christianity other than the lack of belief in supernatural agents.
          There is, actually, but it's private information which he's asked us not to provide publicly.
          Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. St. John Chrysostom

          Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
          sigpic
          I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
            I would say he's of average intelligence at best. I've seen nothing to convince me that he has even a mildly superior intellect.
            He's got a Ph.D. in a hard science. That's about all I can say of it publicly, per his request. He's well above average in intelligence.
            Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. St. John Chrysostom

            Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
            sigpic
            I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
              He's got a Ph.D. in a hard science. That's about all I can say of it publicly, per his request. He's well above average in intelligence.
              well considering the idiocy of today's college students that is not saying much.


              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                well considering the idiocy of today's college students that is not saying much.

                The average college student wouldn't be able to sniff a Ph.D. in any field, let alone science/engineering.
                Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. St. John Chrysostom

                Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                sigpic
                I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                Comment


                • #53
                  Moderated By: Catholicity

                  Thread moved to a more appropriate Forum.

                  ***If you wish to take issue with this notice DO NOT do so in this thread.***
                  Contact the forum moderator or an administrator in Private Message or email instead. If you feel you must publicly complain or whine, please take it to the Padded Room unless told otherwise.

                  A happy family is but an earlier heaven.
                  George Bernard Shaw

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                    He's got a Ph.D. in a hard science. That's about all I can say of it publicly, per his request. He's well above average in intelligence.
                    Even a person with average, and in some cases below average intelligence can earn a Ph.D if they put in the time. One of my wife's friends has made a career out of going to college and has earned several degrees, including a Ph.D. Might sound impressive, but sit down and talk to her for 10-minutes and you quickly realize that she's really not all that bright.

                    Which is how I feel about Dimbulb. He might have a doctorate, but after several years of debating him on tWeb, I have seen nothing to convince me that his intelligence is anything but average at best.
                    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                    Than a fool in the eyes of God


                    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                      I don't think so. The point is that people WILL die for something they fervently believe to be true. That claim does not attest to the truth of what they are dying for. It simply attests to the fervency of their beliefs.
                      I can remember during the Vietnam war a Budhist monk sat down in the lotus position, poured gasoline over himself, lit it, and just sat there quietly as he burned to death in the hopes of ending the war. I'm assuming that he believed in the afterlife as well.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by JimL View Post
                        I can remember during the Vietnam war a Budhist monk sat down in the lotus position, poured gasoline over himself, lit it, and just sat there quietly as he burned to death in the hopes of ending the war. I'm assuming that he believed in the afterlife as well.
                        He wasn't protesting the war Jim, he was protesting the way Buddhists were being treated by the ruling Catholic government: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Th%C3%...4%90%E1%BB%A9c

                        But it was something, the man did not cry out or move a muscle. I would have been running and screaming!
                        Last edited by seer; 04-16-2018, 02:19 PM.
                        Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                          I've never seen "nobody would die for lie" used as a general argument for Christianity. Rather, it's to counter a specific "weird skeptical argument" that the apostles were a bunch of con-men who knew what they were saying wasn't true. The counter argument that "liars make poor martyrs" obviously doesn't prove that what they believed was true, but it's not intended to; it's only meant so show that they sincerely believed it.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                            Even a person with average, and in some cases below average intelligence can earn a Ph.D if they put in the time. One of my wife's friends has made a career out of going to college and has earned several degrees, including a Ph.D. Might sound impressive, but sit down and talk to her for 10-minutes and you quickly realize that she's really not all that bright.
                            In what field(s)?
                            Which is how I feel about Dimbulb. He might have a doctorate, but after several years of debating him on tWeb, I have seen nothing to convince me that his intelligence is anything but average at best.
                            We're simply going to disagree about this, then. When he's not emoting all over the place, he comes across as quite intelligent IMO; I'd say he's smarter than I am. You may just not be very adept at evaluating intelligence; I knew a brilliant lawyer who was convinced he'd been killed on the field at Gettysburg in a prior life.
                            Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. St. John Chrysostom

                            Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                            sigpic
                            I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by JimL View Post
                              I can remember during the Vietnam war a Budhist monk sat down in the lotus position, poured gasoline over himself, lit it, and just sat there quietly as he burned to death in the hopes of ending the war. I'm assuming that he believed in the afterlife as well.
                              You evince a singular lack of knowledge regarding Buddhism here. Buddhists believe in reincarnation, and their goal is to step off the cycle of rebirth, not perpetuate it.
                              Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. St. John Chrysostom

                              Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                              sigpic
                              I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by Roy View Post
                                I seriously doubt that there is anything in Starlight's lifestyle that is in conflict with Christianity other than the lack of belief in supernatural agents.
                                He's referring to the fact that the falling piano that broke the camels back for me was the widespread Christian opposition to gay rights. As a liberal Christian I had always seen Christianity as the defender of the oppressed and supporter of minorities and so supportive of things like LGBT rights, and so I expected most Christian groups to be like Canada's largest protestant denomination (United Church of Canada) in calling on their government to support same-sex marriage. So I was shocked at the strength of the conservative Christian opposition to LGBT rights, and the forcefulness with which such horrific views were promoted in the public sphere in the name of Christianity. And it was at that point that I ended up doing a more thorough evaluation of whether I really thought Christianity was contributing positively to the world or wanted to be associated with it in any way (answers: no). Even now that about half of denominations seem to have back-peddled on the issue, their behavior still doesn't impress me much.

                                I think when he talks about my 'lifestyle' being in conflict with Christianity he's implying that I live 'the gay lifestyle' () and that I chose this over my Christianity. Sadly no, I'm actually single and don't get out enough to meet many people never-mind live any kind of exciting-sounding gay lifestyle. Most of the rest of what OBP seems to be claiming he knows about me but can't talk about is weirdly inaccurate as well to the point where I don't even know what he's referring to in several of his posts. Maybe he's confusing me with someone else?

                                Comment

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