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Papyrus found Jesus married

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  • Papyrus found Jesus married

    Source: http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2012/09/was-jesus-married-ancient-papyrus-mentions-his-wife/



    A small fragment of faded papyrus contains a suggestion that Jesus may have been married.

    The fragment, with just eight lines of text on the front and six lines on the back, is from a fourth-century dialogue, written in the Coptic language, between Jesus and his disciples. In it, Jesus speaks of “my wife,” according to Harvard professor Karen L. King, who discovered the fragment.

    “The most exciting line in the whole fragment…is the sentence ‘Jesus said to them [his disciples], my wife…” King said in a video posted to Harvard’s YouTube channel. The next line of text reads, “She will be able to be my disciple.”

    “This is the only extant ancient text which explicitly portrays Jesus as referring to a wife,” King wrote in her paper on the discovery.

    © Copyright Original Source

    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

    go with the flow the river knows . . .

    Frank

    I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

  • #2
    Old hat. See discussion in Unorthodox Theology.
    Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

    Comment


    • #3
      It is very misleading to affirmatively state for sure in a subject line that, yes, Jesus was for sure married... based on a line in a fourth century document.
      "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

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      • #4
        Shuny passing an old forgery as a new discovery. Shocking.
        "As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12

        There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
          It is very misleading to affirmatively state for sure in a subject line that, yes, Jesus was for sure married... based on a line in a fourth century document.
          I agree.

          I do wonder if Jesus would've had a more complete human experience had he been married to a woman.

          Comment


          • #6
            Um, dude, this papyrus was found as a modern forgery. Which incidentally led to the cancellation of the documentary that was going to air about it.

            Comment


            • #7
              Craig Evans in 2012:

              [Note from Brian LePort: I received an email from Craig A. Evans saying that the Harvard Theological Review (HTR) has decided against publishing Karen King's paper on the Gospel of Jesus' Wife. He wrote, "After the analyses of Francis Watson, Mark Goodacre, Gesine Robinson, and others, I think forgery is virtually a certainty." I responded asking if it is becoming a consensus that it is a "modern" forgery and the below post (which he said I could share) is his response. Also, I should add that he did not provide his source, so I've sent him a follow-up email asking where he heard the news regarding HTR's decision. Update: The source appears to be an email from Gesine Robinson whose source is Helmut Koester. ]
              Is the Coptic papyrus, in which Jesus speaks of his “wife,” a fake? Probably. We are far from a “consensus,” but one scholar after another and one Coptologist after another has weighed in pointing out serious problems with the paleography, the syntax, and the very troubling fact that almost all of the text has been extracted from the Gospel of Thomas (principally from logia 30, 101, and 114). I suspect the papyrus itself is probably quite old, perhaps fourth or fifth century, but the oddly written (or painted) letters on the recto side are probably modern and probably reflect recent interest in Jesus and Mary Magdalene. The decision of the editors of Harvard Theological Review not to publish Karen King’s paper is very wise. Perhaps we will eventually learn more about who actually produced this text.
              http://web.archive.org/web/201209270...craig-a-evans/

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              • #8
                Originally posted by whag View Post
                I do wonder if Jesus would've had a more complete human experience had he been married to a woman.
                If he was married it would explain why he allowed himself to be crucified.
                Actually YOU put Trump in the White House. He wouldn't have gotten 1% of the vote if it wasn't for the widespread spiritual and cultural devastation caused by progressive policies. There's no "this country" left with your immigration policies, your "allies" are worthless and even more suicidal than you are and democracy is a sick joke that I hope nobody ever thinks about repeating when the current order collapses. - Darth_Executor striking a conciliatory note in Civics 101

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by MehGerbil View Post
                  If he was married it would explain why he allowed himself to be crucified.
                  Imagine the pain of having multiple wives. Consider how David dealt with them:

                  Originally posted by bible
                  "It was before the Lord, who chose me above your father and above all his house, to appoint me ruler over the people of the Lord, over Israel; therefore I will celebrate before the Lord.

                  “I will be more lightly esteemed than this and will be humble in my own eyes, but with the maids of whom you have spoken, with them I will be distinguished.”

                  Michal the daughter of Saul had no child to the day of her death.
                  That's how you treat 'em ANE style.

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                  • #10
                    it would appear that they have decided it is not a modern forgery
                    http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/middle-...modern-forgery
                    "If you can ever make any major religion look absolutely ludicrous, chances are you haven't understood it"
                    -Ravi Zacharias, The New Age: A foreign bird with a local walk

                    Be watchful, stand firm in the faith, act like men, be strong.
                    1 Corinthians 16:13

                    "...he [Doherty] is no historian and he is not even conversant with the historical discussions of the very matters he wants to pontificate on."
                    -Ben Witherington III

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by MehGerbil View Post
                      If he was married it would explain why he allowed himself to be crucified.
                      Clearly it was because of the guys his daughters were dating.
                      Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                      Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                      sigpic
                      I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                        It is very misleading to affirmatively state for sure in a subject line that, yes, Jesus was for sure married... based on a line in a fourth century document.
                        It's not fourth century: from the Harvard report, the "papyrus material is ancient, and can be dated to the seventh to eighth c.c.e." Fourth century is the hypothetical .

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Raphael View Post
                          it would appear that they have decided it is not a modern forgery
                          http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/middle-...modern-forgery
                          Depends on who you define "they" as.

                          The Theological Review also published a rebuttal by Leo Depuydt, an Egyptologist at Brown University, who said he reviewed the test results but remained convinced that the fragment was a modern forgery inexpertly daubed on an ancient scrap of blank papyrus.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                            Clearly it was because of the guys his daughters were dating.
                            Touche.
                            Actually YOU put Trump in the White House. He wouldn't have gotten 1% of the vote if it wasn't for the widespread spiritual and cultural devastation caused by progressive policies. There's no "this country" left with your immigration policies, your "allies" are worthless and even more suicidal than you are and democracy is a sick joke that I hope nobody ever thinks about repeating when the current order collapses. - Darth_Executor striking a conciliatory note in Civics 101

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                              It is very misleading to affirmatively state for sure in a subject line that, yes, Jesus was for sure married... based on a line in a fourth century document.
                              Not to mention the fact that the author herself was quoted in the news story:

                              "King stresses that the new discovery “does not provide evidence that the historical Jesus was married.”

                              And this was from a news report in September of 2012, before there was any chance for peer review, which has raised significant concern about forgery.
                              βλέπομεν γὰρ ἄρτι δι᾿ ἐσόπτρου ἐν αἰνίγματι, τότε δὲ πρόσωπον πρὸς πρόσωπον·
                              ἄρτι γινώσκω ἐκ μέρους, τότε δὲ ἐπιγνώσομαι καθὼς καὶ ἐπεγνώσθην.

                              אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃

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