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What must I do to be Born Again?

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  • Originally posted by 37818 View Post
    ". . . as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, [even] to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God." -- John 1:12, 13. It is what God does for those who trust in Him believing in His Son who died on our behalf and rose from the dead. " . . . and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved." -- Romans 10:9.

    Jesus stated, this, "If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, . . . ." That by trusting in Him according to God's will, you will know.

    John states it as being as simple as believing in God's Christ, "Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . ." -- 1 John 5:1. Remember it is God who does the new birth. Not our act of believing.

    "Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, . . . " -- James 1:18.

    ". . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . " -- 1 Corinthians 15:3, 4.
    Sounds like a quid pro quo to me. I.e.: believe; or else. You are merely parsing words.

    NORM
    When the missionaries came to Africa they had the Bible and we had the land. They said 'Let us pray.' We closed our eyes. When we opened them we had the Bible and they had the land. - Bishop Desmond Tutu

    Comment


    • Originally posted by NormATive View Post
      Sounds like a quid pro quo to me. I.e.: believe; or else. You are merely parsing words.

      NORM
      Well if a doctor diagnosis melanoma cancer, . . . One either believes the treatment or else.

      You see, either the "good news" is true or not. If not, believing it does not make it true.

      ". . . if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them." -- 2 Corinthians 4:3, 4.

      Now what blows my mind, is if the gospel claims are false, how come those who say it is false, can't even get its "false" claims correct?!
      Last edited by 37818; 04-20-2014, 10:35 PM.
      . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

      . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

      Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

      Comment


      • Originally posted by JimL View Post
        So you agree that man can create a better world for himself but not a perfect world. And? Sorry I have not been following this thread, but whats your point?
        I was trading rhetoric with NormAtive: there's no real point.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by NormATive View Post
          You aren't adding anything constructive to the conversation, and force everyone to just scroll past your posts or place you on ignore.
          Other people interact fine with me. Perhaps the problem lies with you.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by 37818 View Post
            Well if a doctor diagnosis melanoma cancer, . . . One either believes the treatment or else.
            Treatments are not believed. They are administered. Whether they are effective or not depends on the physician's skill, not on anything the patient either believes or disbelieves.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by 37818 View Post
              You see, either the "good news" is true or not. If not, believing it does not make it true.
              And, yet if one does NOT believe, they do NOT have salvation? It doesn't matter the particular order of the formula; it is a formula, nonetheless. One must earn salvation by believing.

              NORM
              When the missionaries came to Africa they had the Bible and we had the land. They said 'Let us pray.' We closed our eyes. When we opened them we had the Bible and they had the land. - Bishop Desmond Tutu

              Comment


              • Originally posted by NormATive View Post
                Interesting discussion, but it kind of strays from the subject of this thread; what is the formula for salvation?

                Either way you slice it, there appears to be some formula or set of beliefs (John 3:16, etc) one must possess in order to earn salvation. This is confusing, because I remember quite clearly that some evangelicals claim that salvation is a free gift - salvation isn't earned.
                We already covered that many pages ago, Norm. Salvation is a "free gift" only in the sense that we do not earn it by keeping various laws perfectly. You are correct that there are still conditions that must be met by those who have salvation, namely the condition of faith. You appeared to understand that claim before, even though you rejected it. Have you now forgotten it altogether?

                Comment


                • Originally posted by RBerman View Post
                  We already covered that many pages ago, Norm. Salvation is a "free gift" only in the sense that we do not earn it by keeping various laws perfectly. You are correct that there are still conditions that must be met by those who have salvation, namely the condition of faith. You appeared to understand that claim before, even though you rejected it. Have you now forgotten it altogether?
                  How is a baby expected to have faith?

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by RBerman View Post
                    We already covered that many pages ago, Norm. Salvation is a "free gift" only in the sense that we do not earn it by keeping various laws perfectly. You are correct that there are still conditions that must be met by those who have salvation, namely the condition of faith. You appeared to understand that claim before, even though you rejected it. Have you now forgotten it altogether?
                    So, salvation ISN'T a free gift. Agreed. Now we can stop this silly nonsense about this new covenant.

                    NORM
                    When the missionaries came to Africa they had the Bible and we had the land. They said 'Let us pray.' We closed our eyes. When we opened them we had the Bible and they had the land. - Bishop Desmond Tutu

                    Comment


                    • Since faith itself is given as God wills it indeed is.
                      The State. Ideas so good they have to be mandatory.

                      sigpic

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Dee Dee Warren View Post
                        Since faith itself is given as God wills it indeed is.
                        I don't understand this statement. Could it be missing punctuation,perhaps? Maybe this is what you are saying: Since faith itself is given as God wills it; it indeed is [a free gift] ?

                        If so, how does that make it a free gift? It isn't a gift at all if the game is rigged.

                        NORM
                        When the missionaries came to Africa they had the Bible and we had the land. They said 'Let us pray.' We closed our eyes. When we opened them we had the Bible and they had the land. - Bishop Desmond Tutu

                        Comment


                        • God's choice is His prerogative.
                          The State. Ideas so good they have to be mandatory.

                          sigpic

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by NormATive View Post
                            And, yet if one does NOT believe, they do NOT have salvation? It doesn't matter the particular order of the formula; it is a formula, nonetheless. One must earn salvation by believing.

                            NORM
                            Anyone who thinks they can earn salvation "by believing" are lost.

                            Make sense out of this:

                            " But to him that worketh not, but believeth . . ." -- Romans 4:5.

                            And:

                            "And if by grace, then [is it] no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if [it be] of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work." -- Romans 11:6.
                            Last edited by 37818; 04-22-2014, 11:04 AM.
                            . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

                            . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

                            Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Doug Shaver View Post
                              Treatments are not believed. They are administered. Whether they are effective or not depends on the physician's skill, not on anything the patient either believes or disbelieves.
                              If one doesn't believe the physician, will that one get the treatment? Likely not. There are things that are true regardless whether it is believed. And belief does not make what is not true to be true. Yet, no one knowingly accepts anything they knowingly do not believe. Information to become something that one accepts requires belief that the information is true.
                              . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

                              . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

                              Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by NormATive View Post
                                . . .
                                . . . It isn't a gift at all if the game is rigged.

                                NORM
                                Gifts must be willingly received. How else can it be a gift? Can you accept a gift if you reject it (not believe it)? Or that it is not really there?
                                . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

                                . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

                                Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

                                Comment

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