What must I do to be Born Again?

[RBerman]

I have no biblical grounds for my skepticism of the belief that God torments unelect babies. Have that discussion with Arminians, not skeptics. I once saw Dee Dee said something to the effect of "we don't know if all babies go to heaven," but it was in a forum where I couldn't respond. I was hoping someone would later clarify if this was something Christians believed on biblical grounds. Thank you for clearing it up.

You are welcome!

[NormATive]

"Creepy" is not an argument; it generally just marks an idea that is unsettling by virtue of being unfamiliar.

No, it's creepy to believe that babies go to hell for rebelling against G-d in their hearts.

NORM

[RBerman]

"Creepy" is not an argument; it generally just marks an idea that is unsettling by virtue of being unfamiliar.

No, it's creepy to believe that babies go to hell for rebelling against G-d in their hearts.

Despite your "No," You're not contradicting what I said. You're just demonstrating how my comment applies to you. You find my belief unfamiliar and unsettling, but do you have any biblical reason for disputing it, or are you just going to appeal to the Talmud as an authority which renders the Bible moot?

[NormATive]

Despite your "No," You're not contradicting what I said. You're just demonstrating how my comment applies to you. You find my belief unfamiliar and unsettling, but do you have any biblical reason for disputing it, or are you just going to appeal to the Talmud as an authority which renders the Bible moot?

I don't take direction from ancient books, including the Talmud. I can glean wisdom from them sometimes, but not always, and certainly not every single word.

Morality is community based - the community you are in at the present determines what is socially acceptable, not some book written thousands of years ago when human life was not valued.

If we only got our moral compass from the Bible, women would have to remain subservient to men, homosexuality and mental illness would be the result of sinfulness, slavery would be acceptable and babies would go to hell.

NORM

[Darth Xena]

Morality is community based - the community you are in at the present determines what is socially acceptable, not some book written thousands of years ago when human life was not valued.

If we only got our moral compass from the Bible, women would have to remain subservient to men, homosexuality and mental illness would be the result of sinfulness, slavery would be acceptable and babies would go to hell.

Am I the only one seeing the cognitive dissonance between these two statements?

[whag]

Am I the only one seeing the cognitive dissonance between these two statements?

Probably, yes.

You should be examining your own contradictory beliefs. There's plenty of friction in the belief that babies get punished with fire.

[Paprika]

Am I the only one seeing the cognitive dissonance between these two statements?

Nope. NormAtive wants to have his cake and eat it - that is, pick and choose the bits and understandings of the Tanakh that he likes.

[Darth Xena]

Umm let me see if I could care any less about your fixation ....

----strains-----

Nope. I can't.

[NormATive]

Am I the only one seeing the cognitive dissonance between these two statements?

I don't understand what you mean, DeeDee. Unless you are using a different definition of "dissonance." The point is that community standards and morals evolve with human understanding. Living "by the book" is static and unwielding.

NORM

[Darth Xena]

Nope. NormAtive wants to have his cake and eat it - that is, pick and choose the bits and understandings of the Tanakh that he likes.

What I found interesting is his claim that society determines morality and then gave examples of what he thinks are objectively wrong... First LOL and what things were in his view..... What society said was right!

[Paprika]

What I found interesting is his claim that society determines morality and then gave examples of what he thinks are objectively wrong... First LOL and what things were in his view..... What society said was right!

That's what they all do

[NormATive]

Nope. NormAtive wants to have his cake and eat it - that is, pick and choose the bits and understandings of the Tanakh that he likes.

Exactly. What is the problem with that? I like the action scenes in Moby Dick, but could care less about Ishmael's whining.

NORM

[NormATive]

I wish Christians WOULD pick and choose. Then you wouldn't have to teach that babies should go to hell.

NORM

[Paprika]

Exactly. What is the problem with that? I like the action scenes in Moby Dick, but could care less about Ishmael's whining.

You say that living by the book is "static and unwielding [sic]". My retort would be that your approach just suffices to confirm what you approve of; anything new will be accepted only if you approve of it. It's rather arbitrary.

[NormATive]

What I found interesting is his claim that society determines morality and then gave examples of what he thinks are objectively wrong... First LOL and what things were in his view..... What society said was right!

Again, I don't see what the problem is. We all have the capability to determine right and wrong. We shouldn't need a book to figure it out.

NORM