Originally posted by MehGerbil
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Forum Rules: Here
This forum is open discussion between atheists and all theists to defend and debate their views on religion or non-religion. Please respect that this is a Christian-owned forum and refrain from gratuitous blasphemy. VERY wide leeway is given in range of expression and allowable behavior as compared to other areas of the forum, and moderation is not overly involved unless necessary. Please keep this in mind. Atheists who wish to interact with theists in a way that does not seek to undermine theistic faith may participate in the World Religions Department. Non-debate question and answers and mild and less confrontational discussions can take place in General Theistics.
Forum Rules: Here
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The Revelation of Jesus Christ
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Can you supply a list of other writings from the ancient world that are better attested than the New Testament?
http://carm.org/manuscript-evidence
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Originally posted by foudroyant View PostCan you supply a list of other writings from the ancient world that are better attested than the New Testament?
http://carm.org/manuscript-evidence
In the reference, I seriously question the number of copies reported to be less then 100 years, and the percentage of accuracy. By far only a few scrapes exist in this early time period, greater then 50-70 years after his life. . Most date to more then 250-300 years later then the life of Christ.
Old Testament documents date only to the post exile period with the Dead Sea Scrolls, and two silver burial scrolls of this period. The Hebrew language does not date to much older then this period. The oldest scripture (ie parts of the Psalms) and stories of the OT are in cuniform pre-Babylonian tablets.
The bottom line is that early or original dating of ancient writings does not necessarily correspond to the 'truth value' of said documents. As a witness to the fallibility of human authors memory and testimony trumps throughout history of written language.Last edited by shunyadragon; 05-25-2014, 07:16 AM.Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:
go with the flow the river knows . . .
Frank
I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.
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Please supply a link with the dating of the documents you have cited above.
So why then do you not accept the historical event of the resurrection as described in the New Testament?Last edited by foudroyant; 05-25-2014, 05:35 PM.
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Originally posted by foudroyant View PostPlease supply a link with the dating of the documents you have cited above.
The existence and dating of the Egyptian writings, the tombs were full of them and all over the walls. Many sources, you pick. These texts are far older then anything known in the Bible and original to the time they were written.
I may comment more on others.
I may
So why then do you not accept the historical event of the resurrection as described in the New Testament?Last edited by shunyadragon; 05-26-2014, 06:30 AM.Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:
go with the flow the river knows . . .
Frank
I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.
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Originally posted by Doug ShaverWhy should I think the New Testament is more credible than any other book?
Originally posted by foudroyant View PostCan you supply a list of other writings from the ancient world that are better attested than the New Testament?
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Originally posted by shunyadragon View PostI have not stated my beliefs, but the evidence of the actual known texts of the NT do not support the claim on CARM. The Resurrection of Christ is a religious claim of traditional Christians based on the dogma and doctrine based on the NT text, Because of the history of the text the 'truth' of the Resurrection is not the only possible nor reasonable conclusion.
What other possible or reasonable conclusions are there that go against the resurrection of Christ?
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Originally posted by foudroyant View Post[The resurrection] is not only a religious claim but a historical one as well.
Originally posted by foudroyant View PostWhat other possible or reasonable conclusions are there that go against the resurrection of Christ?
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Originally posted by Doug Shaver View PostAre you asking how a skeptic might possibly justify their belief that the resurrection did not actually occur?
I am asking how the resurrection of Christ can be denied when the documents of the New Testament, which are historically accurate accounts of what took place, say that it did.
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Originally posted by foudroyant View PostI am asking how the resurrection of Christ can be denied when the documents of the New Testament, which are historically accurate accounts of what took place, say that it did.
There are many ancient documents of religions set in history, recording historical events, but also reporting miraculous events, ie Buddhist and Hindu scripture.Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:
go with the flow the river knows . . .
Frank
I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.
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Originally posted by foudroyant View PostI am asking how the resurrection of Christ can be denied when the documents of the New Testament, which are historically accurate accounts of what took place, say that it did.
You say they are historically reliable. That doesn't make them so. I can deny the resurrection by denying the New Testament's historical reliability.Last edited by Doug Shaver; 05-26-2014, 09:09 AM.
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