continued - Biblical Infanticide

[whag]

These events are only written up once each. Had there been a second record of even one of the events, I would not have hesitation in stating that they had occurred as recorded.
As it stands though, none of them could have happened except by (massive) miraculous intervention - nothing that I can write off as impossible for all that they are physically impossible.

You don’t get it. It’s not a matter of dismissing the miraculous but the absurdity of the intervention needed for it to take place. It’s like saying a man carried the Empire State Building 30 miles uphill. The problem is space and physics.

Ditto the donkey jawbone slaughter. It’s impossible to imagine even 100 Philistines lining up single file to get smashed in the face so hard they they died (“heaps upon heaps” of dead bodies, Samson says). Forget 1,000–even just 100 men would smother Samson.

It is also true that they could be stories recorded for entertainment value, despite the lack of an explicit moral to the tales - though a moral message can readily be drawn from them; Mark 4:25, among other links, comes to mind.

Yes, that’s exactly what it is. ANE life was hard and these tales were entertaining and inspiring.

I have no idea what you mean by lack of “explicit moral.” It doesn’t get any more explicit than “Don’t be reckless and stupid, lest your enemies gouge your eyes out and make you their circus act.”

It doesn’t get any more contrived than the end, just as all myths—just like movies—are conveniently constructed to get to the point.

[whag]

Peer pressure.

point-and-laugh.gif

You obviously don't know me.

And tab is willing to take "unpopular" positions and stand by them.

Um, you're a grown-up who believes Samson is a Marvel character. You’re the LAST person who should be laughing at anybody.

[whag]

There is also Tweb peer pressure, as well as personal status on Tweb, to consider for one of those individuals.

Suggest that this account is a legend and not a literal event as it has come down to us, and risk offending and potentially alienating those of your religious persuasion, including site owners, some of whom may believe this actually was a literal event

There is an element that requires him to accept at least some of the tall tales as history so others don’t dismiss him as a liberal Christian for accepting evolution.

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

There is an element that requires him to accept at least some of the tall tales as history so others don’t dismiss him as a liberal Christian for accepting evolution.

Hmm...given the comment on his avatar "Evolution is God's I.D" one might opine he is hedging his bets!

[rogue06]

LOL. So, Genesis allegory, everything thereafter literal recorded history—including a 300lb man carrying 20,000lbs 30 miles uphill.

No. Seeing it as a polemic is taking it literally.

[rogue06]

Ditto the donkey jawbone slaughter. It’s impossible to imagine even 100 Philistines lining up single file to get smashed in the face so hard they they died (“heaps upon heaps” of dead bodies, Samson says). Forget 1,000–even just 100 men would smother Samson.

First, often when we read of so-and-so doing something, like Washington crossing the Delaware or Alexander the Great conquering Southwest Asia, he didn't do it alone. Samson was likely accompanied by a small band. That was typical of much of ancient warfare. Not so much an organized army as groups made up of bands led by individual heroes.

Second, there are credible historical accounts of small bands (and occasionally individuals) like that defeating much larger groups. Look up Cassius Scaevus. Or the unnamed Viking at Stamford Bridge.

Third, while examining accounts of individual Samurai killing scores of opponents in a single battle I discovered that this was often because they were elite warriors and most of who they fought were poorly armed and armored conscripts with a couple hours worth of weapons practice, and with many of them being scrawny teenagers. Btw, did you know that Samurai were often headhunters?

Fourth, in some cases very small groups (3 to 5 men) acted as virtual assassins on the battlefield. What I like to call melee snipers. When the battle broke up into individual fighting they strode as a unit coming up behind enemy fighters engaged with someone and struck them down. Usually the leader would go for the kill while the others guarded his back. In that manner they could wrack up quite the impressive kill count.

Finally, as previously mentioned, when numbers like a thousand are used, it is not the literal number but merely signifies a lot. Sort of like today when someone would say that there were a million people at a concert or the like in order to signify a huge number of people. This is where I largely agree with Hank Hanegraaff of Bible Answer Man fame when he said:

For example, the word “thousand” is used throughout the Bible. I don’t know of any, or at least many places where that word thousand is used in a literal sense.

[rogue06]

Hmm...given the comment on his avatar "Evolution is God's I.D" one might opine he is hedging his bets!

As usual you are letting your nether regions do your thinking for you. Evolution is nothing more than one of the processes or mechanisms that God established during the Creation. No different than say gravity, photosynthesis or the atomic structure of matter.

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

As usual you are letting your nether regions do your thinking for you. Evolution is nothing more than one of the processes or mechanisms that God established during the Creation. No different than say gravity, photosynthesis or the atomic structure of matter.

One can only opine that that does not say a great deal for this Supreme Creator's forward planning and its supposed "omniscience" given the various evolutionary dead-ends and mass extinctions.

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

First, often when we read of so-and-so doing something, like Washington crossing the Delaware or Alexander the Great conquering Southwest Asia, he didn't do it alone. Samson was likely accompanied by a small band.

Now we know!

[whag]

First, often when we read of so-and-so doing something, like Washington crossing the Delaware or Alexander the Great conquering Southwest Asia, he didn't do it alone. Samson was likely accompanied by a small band. That was typical of much of ancient warfare. Not so much an organized army as groups made up of bands led by individual heroes.

It clearly says he did it alone.

Second, there are credible historical accounts of small bands (and occasionally individuals) like that defeating much larger groups. Look up Cassius Scaevus. Or the unnamed Viking at Stamford Bridge.

He wasn’t part of a band. The whole point is that he was strong enough to accomplish solo feats.

Third, while examining accounts of individual Samurai killing scores of opponents in a single battle I discovered that this was often because they were elite warriors and most of who they fought were poorly armed and armored conscripts with a couple hours worth of weapons practice, and with many of them being scrawny teenagers. Btw, did you know that Samurai were often headhunters?

The Philistines weren’t scrawny teenagers. The story emphasizes heaps upon heaps of bodies. With the jawbone he did it alone.

Fourth, in some cases very small groups (3 to 5 men) acted as virtual assassins on the battlefield. What I like to call melee snipers. When the battle broke up into individual fighting they strode as a unit coming up behind enemy fighters engaged with someone and struck them down. Usually the leader would go for the kill while the others guarded his back. In that manner they could wrack up quite the impressive kill count.

Again, you keep ignoring the fact that the incident was accomplished solo. It it was a band, it would have said it and taken away from inspiring element of one folk hero doing the slaying.

Finally, as previously mentioned, when numbers like a thousand are used, it is not the literal number but merely signifies a lot. Sort of like today when someone would say that there were a million people at a concert or the like in order to signify a huge number of people. This is where I largely agree with Hank Hanegraaff of Bible Answer Man fame when he said:

Yes, and as I previously mentioned, that doesn’t accord with the other mentions of 1,000 to multiple thousands in the book. “Heaps upon heaps” is obviously meant to convey the actual amount. Samson’s bragging about the feat means it’s all him.

For example, the word “thousand” is used throughout the Bible. I don’t know of any, or at least many places where that word thousand is used in a literal sense.

You should be embarrassed using anti-evo Hanegraaf as a source for anything.

[whag]

No. Seeing it as a polemic is taking it literally.

No, seeing Samson as a Marvel hero is taking it literally.