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Mythicism

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  • Mythicism

    Can someone kind please fact check this blog post for me? It's too difficult to find errors in my own writing, and I'd rather not be labelled a liar again by clueless mythicists who have a tendency to be incredibly nasty.

    I don't think, personally, that any living mythicist scholar is even worth taking seriously. The two that are actually respected scholars in a relevant field are Brodie and Price. One of the problems I see with this view is that it usually treats Jesus as having less historical evidence than Paul, which is just not true, therefore if you're going to say he was mythical then you really need to come up with a theory that makes Paul mythical too. Price to his credit isn't convinced Paul was historical either, but he fails to present a coherent argument that accounts for his epistles and the account of his ministry given in Acts. In fact, the historical method that is most often denied by both Christian fundamentalists, and by mythicists is that of textual criticism. Denying the validity of textual criticism is a very clear fundamentalist belief, so I don't see how mythicists can claim that they are looking at all the evidence in an objective way - once you reject the best practise techniques used by experts, in my view you lose all credibility. You're just drawing conclusions beyond what the evidence provides for.

    I will go where ever the evidence is.

  • #2
    Originally posted by Aractus View Post
    Can someone kind please fact check this blog post for me? It's too difficult to find errors in my own writing, and I'd rather not be labelled a liar again by clueless mythicists who have a tendency to be incredibly nasty.

    I don't think, personally, that any living mythicist scholar is even worth taking seriously. The two that are actually respected scholars in a relevant field are Brodie and Price. One of the problems I see with this view is that it usually treats Jesus as having less historical evidence than Paul, which is just not true, therefore if you're going to say he was mythical then you really need to come up with a theory that makes Paul mythical too. Price to his credit isn't convinced Paul was historical either, but he fails to present a coherent argument that accounts for his epistles and the account of his ministry given in Acts. In fact, the historical method that is most often denied by both Christian fundamentalists, and by mythicists is that of textual criticism. Denying the validity of textual criticism is a very clear fundamentalist belief, so I don't see how mythicists can claim that they are looking at all the evidence in an objective way - once you reject the best practise techniques used by experts, in my view you lose all credibility. You're just drawing conclusions beyond what the evidence provides for.

    I will go where ever the evidence is.
    What is the biography of the person called Jesus that you consider to be a real historical figure? In particular, did this person survive his own death? If not, then who are you taking about?
    “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
    “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
    “not all there” - you know who you are

    Comment


    • #3
      Typical clueless mythicist response. Those questions have nothing to do with mythicism.

      Here's my question for you - which scholar do you think is competent and why? Richard Carrier? Robert Price? Thomas Brodie? Or someone else?

      PS: Now you say "you're avoiding the questions you liar".

      Comment


      • #4
        N
        Originally posted by Aractus View Post
        Typical clueless mythicist response. Those questions have nothing to do with mythicism.

        Here's my question for you - which scholar do you think is competent and why? Richard Carrier? Robert Price? Thomas Brodie? Or someone else?

        PS: Now you say "you're avoiding the questions you liar".
        It seems to me that if you are talking about a myth or rejecting that label we readers are entitled to know to what do you refer. The important details of the subject's biography would seem to be basic to such a discussion unless you are simply talking about myths in general.
        “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
        “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
        “not all there” - you know who you are

        Comment


        • #5
          It depends on what is called myth. It is most common that some skeptics say the Biblical version of Jesus is mythical, the messianic rebel Jesus was a historical figure. A few say that Jesus as a man never existed, or that the Biblical Jesus was a composite of rebel messianic figures of the time.
          Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
          Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
          But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

          go with the flow the river knows . . .

          Frank

          I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

          Comment


          • #6
            We could ask whether there is evidence of an ordinary person behind the Christ story or if there is not even that. It seems that the later is the mythicist claim.
            “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
            “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
            “not all there” - you know who you are

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by firstfloor View Post
              It seems to me that if you are talking about a myth or rejecting that label we readers are entitled to know to what do you refer. The important details of the subject's biography would seem to be basic to such a discussion unless you are simply talking about myths in general.
              You can also call me a holohugger, god knows I've been called it many times before.

              Again, which scholar do you think is reliable and why?

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                It depends on what is called myth. It is most common that some skeptics say the Biblical version of Jesus is mythical, the messianic rebel Jesus was a historical figure. A few say that Jesus as a man never existed, or that the Biblical Jesus was a composite of rebel messianic figures of the time.
                Thankfully Shuny both your and my religion teach that Christ Jesus was a historical figure and the Son of God. I'm so glad we cleared that up! Aren't you?
                Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Aractus View Post
                  You can also call me a holohugger, god knows I've been called it many times before.

                  Again, which scholar do you think is reliable and why?
                  Concerning mythology I would go with Joseph Campbell. Why? He knows what myth is and what it does.
                  “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
                  “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
                  “not all there” - you know who you are

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Aractus View Post
                    Typical clueless mythicist response. Those questions have nothing to do with mythicism.

                    Here's my question for you - which scholar do you think is competent and why? Richard Carrier? Robert Price? Thomas Brodie? Or someone else?

                    PS: Now you say "you're avoiding the questions you liar".
                    I don't think any of these guys are competent. None are good historians.

                    For good historians, I'd suggest Ed Yamauchi or Gary Habermas. For good New Testament scholars, I'd suggest Craig Bloomberg or Ben Witherington. These guys are all evangelicals, so you probably won't like any of them.

                    Bart Ehrman is also a good scholar of this time period, though he has a strong anti-evangelical bias which often comes out.

                    Yamauchi has written some good responses to the mythicists. I also recommend the book Reinventing Jesus by Komoszewski, Sawyer, and Wallace.
                    Last edited by Kbertsche; 05-27-2017, 10:51 AM.
                    "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind." – Albert Einstein

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Aractus View Post
                      You can also call me a holohugger, god knows I've been called it many times before.

                      Again, which scholar do you think is reliable and why?
                      Firstfloor is an admitted troll. You can safely ignore his none responses.
                      Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by seer View Post
                        Thankfully Shuny both your and my religion teach that Christ Jesus was a historical figure and the Son of God. I'm so glad we cleared that up! Aren't you?
                        My religion is not an issue nor the topic of this thread. Your insecurity is showing.
                        Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                        Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                        But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                        go with the flow the river knows . . .

                        Frank

                        I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                          My religion is not an issue nor the topic of this thread. Your insecurity is showing.
                          No Shuny, truth is the issue. And you religion teaches that Christ Jesus was an historical person and the Son of God. That Shuny is either true or not - so was your religion telling the truth? Yes or no - I will be waiting.
                          Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by seer View Post
                            No Shuny, truth is the issue. And you religion teaches that Christ Jesus was an historical person and the Son of God. That Shuny is either true or not - so was your religion telling the truth? Yes or no - I will be waiting.
                            My religion is not an issue nor the topic of this thread. Your insecurity is showing.
                            Last edited by shunyadragon; 05-27-2017, 06:48 PM.
                            Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                            Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                            But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                            go with the flow the river knows . . .

                            Frank

                            I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                              My religion is not an issue nor the topic of this thread. Your insecurity is showing.
                              I'm not going to stop Shuny, every time you attack a Christian or Christianity I am going to bring up your hypocrisy. So again, your religion teaches that Christ Jesus was an historical person and the Son of God. Is was your religion telling the truth? Yes or no?
                              Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                              Comment

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