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Adam and Eve were Homo Erectus?

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  • #46
    Originally posted by eider View Post

    Hi Jim, I can see that your thread is for Christians, but can a Deist sneak in, please?

    Genesis is not taught by all churches, Jim. Wiki tells it simply:-

    What denominations believe in Genesis?
    The Book of Genesis is regarded as a religious text by several faiths..............many adherents of those faiths interpret Genesis literally, while others interpret it as a metaphor or symbolism.

    And so there isn't that much for you to discuss unless you can find a 'literal Genesis' advocate.
    Well that is true, different sects I suppose, definitely different Christians tend to interpret the biblical texts differently. But, that being said, I do not believe that it was meant to be interpreted in any way other that literally.
    But regardless of my personal opinion concerning that, I don't think the Genesis account can be interpreted any other way but literally. There is a genealogy line that goes from and connects Adam to Noah to King David to Jesus which is only what, some 4000 years or so from the time of Adam to the time of Jesus. That connection between Adam and Jesus shows that the authors meant it to be taken literally and that the authors of the N.T. did take it literally.

    Comment


    • #47
      Originally posted by JimL View Post

      Well that is true, different sects I suppose, definitely different Christians tend to interpret the biblical texts differently. But, that being said, I do not believe that it was meant to be interpreted in any way other that literally.
      Well, it was a beautiful description of the beginning and no doubt it was intended to satisfy the mindsets of all that heard about it.
      I don't mind it at all, and it reminds me of accounts of 'the beginning' which come from other religions, races, cultures and nations that I have heard about.
      That subject must be addressed by internet search engines....... I might have a look.

      But regardless of my personal opinion concerning that, I don't think the Genesis account can be interpreted any other way but literally. There is a genealogy line that goes from and connects Adam to Noah to King David to Jesus which is only what, some 4000 years or so from the time of Adam to the time of Jesus. That connection between Adam and Jesus shows that the authors meant it to be taken literally and that the authors of the N.T. did take it literally.
      I wonder which line was used for the Davidian connection, Luke's or Matthew's? Such junk as they, intended to somehow set a Galilee Jew among the earlier Jewish families in order to reverse in to ancient Jewish/Israelite prophesies.

      But recently I read a book by Bill Bryson 'A short history of nearly everything' which he won the Aventis prize for. His description of the first stars to ignite in to fusion/fission(?) when the first lights turned on in the early universe, mostly around the same time........ made me smile as I thought about Genesis.

      I haven't got a problem with Genesis because I think it is a delightful story about the beginning. Those who believe every word of it are fine, so long as they don't receive messages from their God about how we should live, love, etc.

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by Sparko View Post

        I am guessing the books are written by the same idiots who make the youtube videos for this type of nonsense.
        While JimL overstates his case that:

        The Garden of Eden myth originated in Egypt under Akhenaton


        We do have a text recalling the first creation when the god Atum of Heliopolis was on a primeval hillock arising out of the waters of chaos and there brought the first gods into being. It was carved inside the pyramids of Mer-ne-Re and Pepi II [Nefer-ka-Re] in the Sixth Dynasty [around 2400 BCE] and thus considerably predates any Hebrew texts.



        .
        "It ain't necessarily so
        The things that you're liable
        To read in the Bible
        It ain't necessarily so
        ."

        Sportin' Life
        Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
          Actually he places it in the Mediterranean basin that had dried up during the Messinian salinity crisis and ended by the Zanclean deluge when the Atlantic Ocean poured in to refill it.
          He placed all of humanity in the basin prior to the Zanclean flood which swept the ark up into the Ararat mountain range. I think he wrote about the garden of Eden as well, but can't recall if he placed it anywhere in particular ... I'm leaving that sentence fragment here to show how my posts evolve as I google for better information.

          Looks like you're right.

          Glenn Morton: Is the Garden of Eden real?
          .
          The rivers of Eden describes the Eastern Mediterranean area as it was 5.3 myr ago. It points to Eden being located in the only place on earth that was flooded with a flood that matches the Biblical description of Noah’s flood. How did that happen? How is that possible? Below, I show how the Bible does match that time frame. It is up to you to decide how this occurred.

          That's not at all what I kind of remembered.

          Comment


          • #50
            Purely for information, a Paradisiacal land predates the Genesis Garden of Eden myth.

            Enki and Ninhursag is one of the best preserved Sumerian myths. And begins with a eulogy of Dilmun which is described as both a land and a city where the action of the story takes place. Dilmun is described in the poem as a place that is pure, clean, and bright. It is a place where there appears to be no sickness or death and which, by the command of the Sumerian water-god Enki, has become full of sweet water, fertile fields, and farms.
            "It ain't necessarily so
            The things that you're liable
            To read in the Bible
            It ain't necessarily so
            ."

            Sportin' Life
            Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post

              You'd be correct. Ralph Ellis is the author of this nonsense. In his previous book, "Tempest & Exodus", he went over the top with his conclusion that little gray aliens are the Grand Secret behind the Masons...
              The grays are nothing but a myth created by our alien reptilian overlords.

              I'm always still in trouble again

              "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
              "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
              "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
                Purely for information, a Paradisiacal land predates the Genesis Garden of Eden myth.

                Enki and Ninhursag is one of the best preserved Sumerian myths. And begins with a eulogy of Dilmun which is described as both a land and a city where the action of the story takes place. Dilmun is described in the poem as a place that is pure, clean, and bright. It is a place where there appears to be no sickness or death and which, by the command of the Sumerian water-god Enki, has become full of sweet water, fertile fields, and farms.
                Something being recorded earlier doesn't necessarily make it the earlier account -- just the earliest one we have a record of.

                I'm always still in trouble again

                "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                  Something being recorded earlier doesn't necessarily make it the earlier account -- just the earliest one we have a record of.

                  The text of Enki and Ninhursag is based primarily on a fairly well-preserved six-column tablet excavated in Nippur. A further unprovenanced fragment was later published. Both tablets are assessed to have been inscribed in the first half of the second millennium BCE.
                  "It ain't necessarily so
                  The things that you're liable
                  To read in the Bible
                  It ain't necessarily so
                  ."

                  Sportin' Life
                  Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post


                    The text of Enki and Ninhursag is based primarily on a fairly well-preserved six-column tablet excavated in Nippur. A further unprovenanced fragment was later published. Both tablets are assessed to have been inscribed in the first half of the second millennium BCE.
                    And?

                    Again, something being recorded earlier doesn't necessarily make it the earlier account -- just the earliest one we have a record of.


                    For instance, here's a little thought exercise... Let's say that I tell a ghost story every Halloween for the last thirty years, but my brother decides to write down his version of my story in which he changes multiple major details. A few years later I write down the original version.

                    Which is the older version? My brother's later version that was written down first, or my version that predates his version by several decades but was written down later?

                    I'm always still in trouble again

                    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                    "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                    "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post

                      You'd be correct. Ralph Ellis is the author of this nonsense. In his previous book, "Tempest & Exodus", he went over the top with his conclusion that little gray aliens are the Grand Secret behind the Masons...
                      No, you would be wrong, Arthur George is the author of "THE MYTHOLOGY OF EDEN", not Ralph Ellis.
                      Last edited by JimL; 09-08-2023, 09:20 AM.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                        And?

                        Again, something being recorded earlier doesn't necessarily make it the earlier account -- just the earliest one we have a record of.


                        For instance, here's a little thought exercise... Let's say that I tell a ghost story every Halloween for the last thirty years, but my brother decides to write down his version of my story in which he changes multiple major details. A few years later I write down the original version.

                        Which is the older version? My brother's later version that was written down first, or my version that predates his version by several decades but was written down later?
                        Presumably you hail from an illiterate society?

                        I think you need to remember that the ancient Hebrews did not exist in cultural or religious isolation from the civilisations of the ancient Near East. Indeed we find echoes of other mythologies in the Hebrew texts. The Baal myth was taken over by the Hebrews and transferred to Yahweh when they settled in Canaan. In Psalm seventy four verses twelve to seventeen the Hebrew poet is employing imagery paralleled from earlier Canaanite and Akkadian mythology.

                        "It ain't necessarily so
                        The things that you're liable
                        To read in the Bible
                        It ain't necessarily so
                        ."

                        Sportin' Life
                        Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

                          Presumably you hail from an illiterate society?

                          I think you need to remember that the ancient Hebrews did not exist in cultural or religious isolation from the civilisations of the ancient Near East. Indeed we find echoes of other mythologies in the Hebrew texts. The Baal myth was taken over by the Hebrews and transferred to Yahweh when they settled in Canaan. In Psalm seventy four verses twelve to seventeen the Hebrew poet is employing imagery paralleled from earlier Canaanite and Akkadian mythology.
                          As usual, the point goes soaring miles over your head.



                          I'm always still in trouble again

                          "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                          "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                          "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                            As usual, the point goes soaring miles over your head.

                            As usual "the point" is entirely irrelevant to the historical situation.
                            "It ain't necessarily so
                            The things that you're liable
                            To read in the Bible
                            It ain't necessarily so
                            ."

                            Sportin' Life
                            Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
                              Purely for information, a Paradisiacal land predates the Genesis Garden of Eden myth.

                              Enki and Ninhursag is one of the best preserved Sumerian myths. And begins with a eulogy of Dilmun which is described as both a land and a city where the action of the story takes place. Dilmun is described in the poem as a place that is pure, clean, and bright. It is a place where there appears to be no sickness or death and which, by the command of the Sumerian water-god Enki, has become full of sweet water, fertile fields, and farms.
                              That reminds me slightly of the Islamic heaven, but without the dark eyed houris (spelling?) to serve the faithful.

                              I rather liked the Mayan 'creation' story....

                              In Mayan culture, Tepeu the maker and Gucumatz the feathered spirit created the world with their thoughts. They created beings to look after their creation. First, they made animals of the sky and land but needed a being that could properly communicate, so they made man. They made him out of clay, but he crumbled apart. Then, they tried making him out of wood but he was empty-headed and hearted. Finally, they made men out of corn, and these men were empathetic and intelligent.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

                                Presumably you hail from an illiterate society?

                                I think you need to remember that the ancient Hebrews did not exist in cultural or religious isolation from the civilisations of the ancient Near East. Indeed we find echoes of other mythologies in the Hebrew texts. The Baal myth was taken over by the Hebrews and transferred to Yahweh when they settled in Canaan. In Psalm seventy four verses twelve to seventeen the Hebrew poet is employing imagery paralleled from earlier Canaanite and Akkadian mythology.
                                Wherever and however did you gather and retain all this knowledge?
                                I think that you must be a University Professor.

                                Comment

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