The Genesis of the Hebrew God

[Machinist]

Do any of you know anything about the following? I'm in a discussion with a couple of friends regarding the origins of The Hebrew God, and the various names by which He is called. Just some context here, but as a Christian, I always refer to God as Heavenly Father... i've never addressed God by any name per se.

Here is the full text of what my friend sent to me in green. My response to him is below that, in blue:


Between the tenth century BC and the beginning of their Babylonian exile in 586 BC, polytheism was normal throughout Israel. Worship solely of Yahweh became established only after the exile, and possibly, only as late as the time of the Maccabees (2nd century BC). That is when monotheism became universal among the Jews. Some biblical scholars believe that Asherah at one time was worshipped as the consort of Yahweh, the national god of Israel.

Asherah is posited as the consort of many gods and is proposed to have had 77 or 88 sons.
She is a sacred feminine who is proposed as consort to:

El (Ugaritic religion)
Baal (Canaanite religion)
Elkunirsa (Hittite religion)
Yahweh (Israelite religion)
Amurru (Amorite religion)
Anu (Akkadian religion)
'Amm (Qatabanian religion)
Assur (Assyrian religion)

Yahweh is, of course, proposed to be the same god as the Christian Jehovah.
What is your understanding of the proposed connections between Yahweh and Jehovah?



That they are the same? I've never looked into this nor have I ever been compelled to wonder. There may or may not be some truth there, I don't really know.

I know of El, and Yaweh and Jehovah, and i've always heard and assumed they were the same. I always address God as "Heavenly Father." Whatever the truth may be on the matter, I believe God is understanding of the limitations we have in ascertaining the truth.

With God being a loving Father, none of this causes me any sort of wonder or doubt regarding the matter.

Frank said something very interesting and enigmatic:

"It's not two entities. It's two different vocalizations of the Tetragrammaton."

I've seen the movie Pi...

[tabibito]

Do any of you know anything about the following? I'm in a discussion with a couple of friends regarding the origins of The Hebrew God, and the various names by which He is called. Just some context here, but as a Christian, I always refer to God as Heavenly Father... i've never addressed God by any name per se.

Here is the full text of what my friend sent to me in green. My response to him is below that, in blue:


Between the tenth century BC and the beginning of their Babylonian exile in 586 BC, polytheism was normal throughout Israel. Worship solely of Yahweh became established only after the exile, and possibly, only as late as the time of the Maccabees (2nd century BC). That is when monotheism became universal among the Jews. Some biblical scholars believe that Asherah at one time was worshipped as the consort of Yahweh, the national god of Israel.

Asherah is posited as the consort of many gods and is proposed to have had 77 or 88 sons.
She is a sacred feminine who is proposed as consort to:

El (Ugaritic religion)
Baal (Canaanite religion)
Elkunirsa (Hittite religion)
Yahweh (Israelite religion)
Amurru (Amorite religion)
Anu (Akkadian religion)
'Amm (Qatabanian religion)
Assur (Assyrian religion)

Yahweh is, of course, proposed to be the same god as the Christian Jehovah.
What is your understanding of the proposed connections between Yahweh and Jehovah?



That they are the same? I've never looked into this nor have I ever been compelled to wonder. There may or may not be some truth there, I don't really know.

I know of El, and Yaweh and Jehovah, and i've always heard and assumed they were the same. I always address God as "Heavenly Father." Whatever the truth may be on the matter, I believe God is understanding of the limitations we have in ascertaining the truth.

With God being a loving Father, none of this causes me any sort of wonder or doubt regarding the matter.

Frank said something very interesting and enigmatic:

"It's not two entities. It's two different vocalizations of the Tetragrammaton."

[(CORRECT)]

יהוה (YHVH) is pronounced predominantly as either Yahweh or Jehovah, though there are other variants.
Yahweh was not a name known to the patriarchs of Israel - that name came into use only with Moses. It is a cognate form of "the (one) being," rendered in Koine Greek as ο ων (ho o^en).
Prior to Moses, God was known as "El," often with a substantive addition: "El + Shaddai," for example. References to YHVH occur in records of events earlier than the time of Moses. Further investigation would be necessary, but it can be expected that the original copies of the Torah, which was written in paleo-Hebrew and not in the Hebrew alphabet, would have El in places where the Hebrew texts show YHVH.
El was in fact the chief god of a number of religions in the region, considered (in some quarters) to have had a consort by the name of Asherah.
El was considered by adherents of those religions to take no part in and to have no interest in the affairs of humans. Abraham is therefore a dramatic change on prior practice and belief.
Israel's history indicates that only in the tribe of Judah was there a strict adherence to Yahwism on an ongoing basis.

[Machinist]

Thanks Tab!

So can we say that throughout the history of mankind, reaching back to these ancient tribes, different groups referred to God by different names, and some even tacked on elements of their own mythologies like the female consort?

I understand that it was the Hebrews that God revealed Himself to, but it would seem that other groups of people also had some interaction with the same being.

Can we distill all of this history to a single God?

[tabibito]

Thanks Tab!

So can we say that throughout the history of mankind, reaching back to these ancient tribes, different groups referred to God by different names, and some even tacked on elements of their own mythologies like the female consort?

I understand that it was the Hebrews that God revealed Himself to, but it would seem that other groups of people also had some interaction with the same being.

Can we distill all of this history to a single God?

Abraham was an Aramean - he was brought up in a religion in which child sacrifice was part of the rites. Thus, when he was required to sacrifice his son, it was just more of the same that he had always known. From the time that sacrifice was prevented, there was a complete break from the preexisting religion(s).

Other religions acknowledged the existence of El as the god of gods, but beyond that, El was "the unknown god."

I think that it would be fair to say that a belief in the existence of YHVH (as El) preexisted the emergence of a cult that actually worshipped him.

[rogue06]

יהוה (YHVH) is pronounced predominantly as either Yahweh or Jehovah, though there are other variants.

From my understanding, Jehovah is the Latinization of Yahweh.

[rogue06]

Abraham was an Aramean - he was brought up in a religion in which child sacrifice was part of the rites. Thus, when he was required to sacrifice his son, it was just more of the same that he had always known. From the time that sacrifice was prevented, there was a complete break from the preexisting religion(s).

Other religions acknowledged the existence of El as the god of gods, but beyond that, El was "the unknown god."

I think that it would be fair to say that a belief in the existence of YHVH (as El) preexisted the emergence of a cult that actually worshipped him.

Can't El, and it's variants such as El Elyon and El Shaddai, be better considered titles than names?

[tabibito]

Can't El, and it's variants such as El Elyon and El Shaddai, be better considered titles than names?

It is line ball. El was not only the name of the god of gods, it was a general term for a god. The additional words differentiated between "God" (as "the god of" or "the god who"), and "a god."

[Bill the Cat]

It is line ball. El was not only the name of the god of gods, it was a general term for a god. The additional words differentiated between "God" (as "the god of" or "the god who"), and "a god."

Actually, El was the generic name for any heavenly being. The "sons of 'el (bene elohim) were "el " in their own right. Had a great discussion with former Mormon apologist Kevin Graham on the origin of the word "el" and he taught me quite a bit about pre-Hebrew assimilation of terms like YHWH. It was his assertion that the YHWH who was the consort of Ashera and the brother of Ba'al was not the same YHWH as the Hebrews worshipped, but that the name YHWH was assimilated from one to the other.

[tabibito]

Actually, El was the generic name for any heavenly being. The "sons of 'el (bene elohim) were "el " in their own right. Had a great discussion with former Mormon apologist Kevin Graham on the origin of the word "el" and he taught me quite a bit about pre-Hebrew assimilation of terms like YHWH.

Yes - "El" was much the same in scope as the Japanese "kami." Where we have an "angel of death," Japanese has a "death god (kami)." Neither kami nor El make the distinctions that are found in English. Japanese has tenshi (angels) and akuma (demons), but both fall into the broader category of kami (insofar as I have been able to determine). The same conditions seem to apply to the Ugarit and Canaanite deities/angels/demons

The Koine Greek word commonly rendered as "demon" literally means "lesser god" - a category that includes the Greek concept of Logos.

It was his assertion that the YHWH who was the consort of Ashera and the brother of Ba'al was not the same YHWH as the Hebrews worshipped, but that the name YHWH was assimilated from one to the other.

That is not an unfamiliar claim, but it is not one for which I have been able to locate any attestation.

[Faber]

From my understanding, Jehovah is the Latinization of Yahweh.

My understanding is that the scribes never pronounced the name Yahweh or YHVH. The original Hebrew alphabet didn't have vowels. When the tenth century Masoretes got around to adding vowel points to the text, none of them knew how it was supposed to be pronounced. So they took the vowel points from 'EdOnAi and inserted them into YHVH, resulting in YEhOvAh. Later European languages then changed the Y to J. But I have also heard some scholars dispute that.

[Sparko]

From my understanding, Jehovah is the Latinization of Yahweh.

Germanization, YeHoWaH comes from adding vowels to YHWH. In German the Y sound comes from the letter J and the W makes a "V" sound. So in German Yehowah becomes Jehowah, in English it got corrupted to Jehovah.

[Bill the Cat]

Yes - "El" was much the same in scope as the Japanese "kami." Where we have an "angel of death," Japanese has a "death god (kami)." Neither kami nor El make the distinctions that are found in English. Japanese has tenshi (angels) and akuma (demons), but both fall into the broader category of kami (insofar as I have been able to determine). The same conditions seem to apply to the Ugarit and Canaanite deities/angels/demons

The Koine Greek word commonly rendered as "demon" literally means "lesser god" - a category that includes the Greek concept of Logos.



That is not an unfamiliar claim, but it is not one for which I have been able to locate any attestation.

I wish I had access to the server before it crashed. So much lost information...

[rogue06]

I wish I had access to the server before it crashed. So much lost information...

Tell me about it.

One of the reason I'm an info hoarder.

[rogue06]

Germanization, YeHoWaH comes from adding vowels to YHWH. In German the Y sound comes from the letter J and the W makes a "V" sound. So in German Yehowah becomes Jehowah, in English it got corrupted to Jehovah.

Hmm...

Wikipedia:

Jehovah (/dʒɪˈhoʊvə/) is a Latinization of the Hebrew יְהֹוָה Yəhōwā, one vocalization of the Tetragrammaton יהוה (YHWH), the proper name of the God of Israel in the Hebrew Bible/Old Testament.^[2][3][4]

Crosswalk:

The name Jehovah is a Latinization of the name YHWY, God's personal name, as He revealed it to the Hebrews

Britannica:

The Masoretes, who from about the 6th to the 10th century CE worked to reproduce the original text of the Hebrew Bible, added to “YHWH” the vowel signs of the Hebrew words Adonai or Elohim. Latin-speaking Christian scholars replaced the Y (which does not exist in Latin) with an I or a J (the latter of which exists in Latin as a variant form of I). Thus, the tetragrammaton became the artificial Latinized name Jehovah (JeHoWaH).

Ask Difference:

Jehovah is a Latinization of the Hebrew יְהֹוָה Yəhōwā, one vocalization of the Tetragrammaton יהוה (YHWH), the proper name of the God of Israel in the Hebrew Bible and is considered one of the seven names of God in Judaism.

Got Questions:

Yahweh is based on the consonants YHWH, which is one of the names for God used in the Old Testament. In ancient Hebrew, the vowels were not normally written. This would not have been a problem for native speakers and readers. Jehovah is the same name based on the Latin equivalents of the Hebrew letters: JHVH.

OTOH, Got Questions also says

Jehovah is essentially a Germanic pronunciation of the Latinized transliteration of the Hebrew YHWH.

[Machinist]

My question is does it matter if we get the name right, and the evolution of how this name came to our English language? I think the only thing that matters, as Christians, is the death, burial and resurrection of the Incarnate God, Jesus.

When we go back that far into pre-history, things get really dark and murky. I'm not so sure that God is too much concerned with whether or not we get His Name correct, and get the details hammered out regarding the evolution of the concept of God depicted by various ancient cultures.

This material can get really confusing and it's quite apparent there are many different schools of thought on the matter. We have the Gospels, and I think that should be the central focus.

Do you all agree with that?