Were Jesus and the Baptist 'left wing' or 'right wing' ?

[eider]

If that's what makes him leftwing then remember that Hitler and his gang were not exactly enamored by the established religion and tried to establish their own.

Oh yeah? What religion was Hitler trying to found?

[Diogenes]

Oh yeah? What religion was Hitler trying to found?

Besides a personality cult surrounding him, Hitler's obsession with the occult is well known.

[Diogenes]

A legal system that causes cohesion, good health, strength and success for all is a Left-Wing set of laws.

So by your definition, Fascism is Left-Wing. Edit: This would also stop Communism from being "Left-Wing".

[rogue06]

Oh yeah? What religion was Hitler trying to found?

The Nazis promoted what they called "Positive Christianity" where they mixed Nazi ideology together with portions of the Nicene Creed. As you probably can imagine this bastardization resulted in something where the most Christian things about it was it's name.

Their Reichsminister of Church Affairs, Hanns Kerrl, in 1937 proclaimed in a meeting with various Church leaders, that "Positive Christianity is National Socialism" as well as "True Christianity is represented by the party" with "the Führer is the herald of a new revelation."

Wiki:

The new Nazi idea of Positive Christianity allayed the fears of Germany's Christian majority by implying that the Nazi movement was not anti-Christian.^[5] That said, in 1937, Hans Kerrl, the Reich Minister for Church Affairs, explained that "Positive Christianity" was not "dependent upon the Apostle's Creed", nor was it dependent on "faith in Christ as the son of God", upon which Christianity relied, rather, it was represented by the Nazi Party: "The Führer is the herald of a new revelation", he said

You can also read about it in Shirer's The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich.

[Sparko]

I don't think that your mind can be changed, Sparko............... but I hope it might happen for you one day.

Do you think that a law which requires and commands the wealthy to support the poor would be seen as a political law today?
Do you think that the law should provide for the poor, paid for by the rich? Not for the rich to get any kind of feel-good-factor but because they are commanded?
That's a good law today and political, don't you think?

Exactly which law(s) are you referring to that commands the wealthy to support the poor? Are you saying that there are biblical laws that command that?

Jesus commanded us to love our brothers and to help those in need. But I know of no law that directly says the rich have to support the poor. The closest I can think of is the law of reaping in the old testament where farmers are supposed to leave a certain amount of their crop unpicked so that the poor can gather some of it.


Leviticus 23:22 Amplified Bible (AMP)
'When you reap the harvest of your land, you shall not reap to the edges of your field, nor gather the gleaning of your harvest; you are to leave them for the poor and for the stranger. I am the LORD your God. '

I am all for Christians helping the poor and if you have plenty you should share it with others. But I think that it should be voluntary, not forced by the government, who ends up wasting most of what they collect as taxes on themselves instead of the poor.

[Cow Poke]

I have shown you various passages which show how much Jesus was against unreasonable wealth.

"Unreasonable wealth" is your term, and your pre-conceived notion.

To deny what he said is just ignorant and stubborn.

To pervert what He said is totally ignorant and/or dishonest.

There's no further ;pointy in trying to show you what he said because you twist it all up.

Let's stick with what He actually said - not your perversion of it, please.

[Cow Poke]

Oh yeah? What religion was Hitler trying to found?

Hitleranity!!!!

[eider]

So by your definition, Fascism is Left-Wing. Edit: This would also stop Communism from being "Left-Wing".

No no no............ Simply this..... repeat:- A legal system that causes cohesion, good health, strength and success for all is a Left-Wing set of laws.

Try these:- Leviticus {19:9} And when ye reap the harvest of your land, thou shalt not wholly reap the corners of thy field, neither shalt thou gather the gleanings of thy harvest.
Leviticus {19:10} And thou shalt not glean thy vineyard, neither shalt thou gather [every] grape of thy vineyard; thou shalt leave them for the poor and stranger: I [am] the LORD your God.

And so you cannot keep the poor from gleaning out in your fields........ it's in the bible, not fascism.

[eider]

The Nazis promoted what they called "Positive Christianity" where they mixed Nazi ideology together with portions of the Nicene Creed. As you probably can imagine this bastardization resulted in something where the most Christian things about it was it's name.

Their Reichsminister of Church Affairs, Hanns Kerrl, in 1937 proclaimed in a meeting with various Church leaders, that "Positive Christianity is National Socialism" as well as "True Christianity is represented by the party" with "the Führer is the herald of a new revelation."

Wiki:

The new Nazi idea of Positive Christianity allayed the fears of Germany's Christian majority by implying that the Nazi movement was not anti-Christian.^[5] That said, in 1937, Hans Kerrl, the Reich Minister for Church Affairs, explained that "Positive Christianity" was not "dependent upon the Apostle's Creed", nor was it dependent on "faith in Christ as the son of God", upon which Christianity relied, rather, it was represented by the Nazi Party: "The Führer is the herald of a new revelation", he said

You can also read about it in Shirer's The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich.

No rogue, in that construct, the Saviour was the Fuhrer! It wasn't any kind of Christianity.....didn't rely on that at all.

[eider]

Exactly which law(s) are you referring to that commands the wealthy to support the poor? Are you saying that there are biblical laws that command that?

Jesus commanded us to love our brothers and to help those in need. But I know of no law that directly says the rich have to support the poor. The closest I can think of is the law of reaping in the old testament where farmers are supposed to leave a certain amount of their crop unpicked so that the poor can gather some of it.


Leviticus 23:22 Amplified Bible (AMP)
'When you reap the harvest of your land, you shall not reap to the edges of your field, nor gather the gleaning of your harvest; you are to leave them for the poor and for the stranger. I am the LORD your God. '

I am all for Christians helping the poor and if you have plenty you should share it with others. But I think that it should be voluntary, not forced by the government, who ends up wasting most of what they collect as taxes on themselves instead of the poor.

Then you do not know your Old Testament Laws, Sparko.
Herewith a Commandment.... that's not a give as you please offer, but a Law!

Leviticus {15:11} For the poor shall never cease out of the land: therefore I command thee, saying, Thou shalt open thine hand wide unto thy brother, to thy poor, and to thy needy, in thy land.

Today that is performed by social services, unemployment benefits, free healthcare, preand piost natal care and more.



And you quote Leviticus 23:22.................. so exactly how can the poor glean from your land if you treat it like your kitchen and would challenge any found there?

Leviticus {15:11} For the poor shall never cease out of the land: therefore I command thee, saying, Thou shalt open thine hand wide unto thy brother, to thy poor, and to thy needy, in thy land.
Leviticus {19:9} And when ye reap the harvest of your land, thou shalt not wholly reap the corners of thy field, neither shalt thou gather the gleanings of thy harvest.
Leviticus {19:10} And thou shalt not glean thy vineyard, neither shalt thou gather [every] grape of thy vineyard; thou shalt leave them for the poor and stranger: I [am] the LORD your God.


The laws of the OT provide for all............. the antithesis of your ideas, maybe?

If you want more then just ask.

[tabibito]

No rogue, in that construct, the Saviour was the Fuhrer! It wasn't any kind of Christianity.....didn't rely on that at all.

Interesting. Rogue provided citations in support of his claims regarding Hitler's version of Christianity. You simply make a bare assertion that Rogue's account is wrong.

[Diogenes]

No no no............ Simply this..... repeat:- A legal system that causes cohesion, good health, strength and success for all is a Left-Wing set of laws.

That would describe (actual) Fascism for the most part as well as most systems. If your hang up is on "success for all", no system truly does that. Also, multiculturalism doesn't cause "cohesion". What you've described does not comport the modern Left.

Try these:- Leviticus {19:9} And when ye reap the harvest of your land, thou shalt not wholly reap the corners of thy field, neither shalt thou gather the gleanings of thy harvest.
Leviticus {19:10} And thou shalt not glean thy vineyard, neither shalt thou gather [every] grape of thy vineyard; thou shalt leave them for the poor and stranger: I [am] the LORD your God.

Yes, those are directions to the Israelites. The gleanings would be insubstantial to the landowner as scrap and subsistence to the poor in an agricultural society. It would be greedy to deny the poor their subsistence for what would be a minor profit to the landowner.

And so you cannot keep the poor from gleaning out in your fields........ it's in the bible, not fascism.

You've yet to detail how the Mosaic Law is applicable to non-Jews or even modern Jews. And England has been preventing gleanings since 1788 due to Steel v Houghton.

[rogue06]

No no no............ Simply this..... repeat:- A legal system that causes cohesion, good health, strength and success for all is a Left-Wing set of laws.

This is like star's claim that Stalin is actually a right-winger because the left doesn't have dictatorial tyrants.

[rogue06]

No rogue, in that construct, the Saviour was the Fuhrer! It wasn't any kind of Christianity.....didn't rely on that at all.

As I said, the bastardization resulted in something where the most Christian part of it was the name.

It was offered up as a way to try to convince various Church leaders that Nazism wasn't hostile to Christianity. Some even fell for it.

[rogue06]

Interesting. Rogue provided citations in support of his claims regarding Hitler's version of Christianity. You simply make a bare assertion that Rogue's account is wrong.

Some things never change.