Did Christianity lose its way?

[tabibito]

Your still avoiding yjr fact the the belief in the Fall and original sin lies at the heart of the beliefs of all the major Christian denominations

The core of the story of the fall is factual, I believe. The concept of original sin owes its origin to beliefs that are contrary to what is found in scripture.

and their justification of Jesus Christ's purpose.

Among the aims of Christ's advent was to make it possible for a person to be set free from sin.

Are you a memeber of one of the minor sects of Christianity that does not believe in The Fall and Original Sin?

Much of what I say was taught by the Celtic Church (RIP ca 8th century) throughout its history. The fall and original sin are separate issues. The fall had a fall-out which affected future generations, but each is responsible for his own sins - sin is not inherited.

Very odd idealistic view of the nature of humanity. All humans are sinners regardless of whether God exists ot not. Splitting frog hairs over the degree humans are sinners does not help your case.

This remains a totally unrealistic response to the nature of sin and the fallible human nature. You cannot parse sin be degree since it is the nature of humans to sin lie and cheat be degree and justify their sins.

Much like alcoholism, past sin is something that is with the person for life, there is no such thing as an ex-alcoholic nor an ex-sinner. Much like the alcoholic avoiding alcohol and remaining sober, sinners can avoid sin, but only under the aegis of the Holy Spirit. The whole point of bestowing the Holy Spirit is to make it possible to transcend human limitations.

Not found in scripture? There are many things not literally found in Scripture believe universally by most Christians, In clear contradiction to the beliefs of Christians in the history of Christianity the belief in the Fall and Original Sin is almost universally believed.

What is almost universally believed is irrelevant.

Third century??? No known scripture of Christianity is known to exist prior to 150-200 AD. The text and beliefs evolved and developed in their final form beyond this from unknown texts.

Paul's letters date to the middle decades of the first century, so too the book of Hebrews. Any attempt to claim that the scriptures were substantially changed in later times fails. Such concepts as original sin, and the continuing godhood of Christ from conception to death are contradicted by scripture; the contradictions are to be found in Paul's letters and in Hebrews (also Acts). If the churches had made major changes to scripture, those contradictions would have been eliminated.

The first clear honest statement you have made in response to my posts.

?

The big issue which you are ignoring is the question IF the 'Truth' is revealed, which is in contradiction with the fact that be far the overwhelming dominate belief in Christianity is that the Fall and the Original Sin is revealed truth.

I feel free to disagree with any claim that can't be substantiated.

Based on the facts of the history of Christianity and fallible human nature the view you are presenting your own 'personal view' and idealistically vague.

If this so called "my personal view" can be shown to contradict scripture, my personal view will be amended. Otherwise, I am stating what the founding members of the church taught, not a personal view.

[shunyadragon]

Original Sin is not to be found in scripture. That concept developed from the fourth or perhaps third century.

Your still avoiding yjr fact the the belief in the Fall and original sin lies at the heart of the beliefs of all the major Christian denominations and their justification of Jesus Christ's purpose. Are you a memeber of one of the minor sects of Christianity that does not believe in the Fall and Original Sin?

Yes, on occasion. No-one goes throughout life invariably sinning.

Very odd idealistic view of the nature of humanity. All humans are sinners regardless of whether God exists ot not. Splitting frog hairs over the degree humans are sinners does not help your case.

The signs are simple enough, if the truth has been received, the person's life will conform with the teachings. If you are saying that no-one avoided sinning, you are correct. If you are saying that no-one can avoid sin, you are incorrect. Scant few have, and it is to be expected that every now and then, a scant few will.

This remains a totally unrealistic response to the nature of sin and the fallible human nature. You cannot parse sin be degree since it is the nature of humans to sin lie and cheat be degree and justify their sins.

ETA: Part of Jesus' mission was to make it possible for people who receive the truth to be set free from bondage to sin. A person unable to stop sinning has not been set free from bondage to sin. The concept of theosis predates the concept of original sin by at least a couple of centuries.

Original Sin is not to be found in scripture. That concept developed from the fourth or perhaps third century.

Not found in scripture? There are many things not literally found in Scripture believe universally by most Christians, In clear contradiction to the beliefs of Christians in the history of Christianity the belief in the Fall and Original Sin is almost universally believed.

Third cetury??? No known scripture of Christianity is known to exist prior to 150-200 AD. The text and beliefs evolved and developed in their final form beyond this from unknown texts.

Yes, on occasion. No-one goes throughout life invariably sinning.

The first clear honest statement you have made in response to my posts.

The signs are simple enough, if the truth has been received, the person's life will conform with the teachings. If you are saying that no-one avoided sinning, you are correct. If you are saying that no-one can avoid sin, you are incorrect. Scant few have, and it is to be expected that every now and then, a scant few will.


ETA: Part of Jesus' mission was to make it possible for people who receive the truth to be set free from bondage to sin. A person unable to stop sinning has not been set free from bondage to sin. The concept of theosis predates the concept of original sin by at least a couple of centuries.

The big issue which you are ignoring is the question IF the 'Truth' is revealed, which is in contradiction with the fact that be far the overwhelming dominate belief in Christianity is that the Fall and the Original Sin is revealed truth

Based on the facts of the history of Christianity and fallible human nature the view you are presenting your own 'personal view' and idealistically vague.

[shunyadragon]

Or the person they are trying to communicate with is an obstinate noodlehead.

Sounds like your methods of responding to posts with insult, cartoons and not substance concerning the issues of the thread, which mirrors the fundamentalist Christian opposition to evolution/

[tabibito]

Or the person they are trying to communicate with is an obstinate noodlehead.

It's really strange that an author who wasn't writing a biography should somehow omit biographical information in his writing.

[rogue06]

When folks throw insults, this is a sure sign that they have nothing of value to offer.

Or the person they are trying to communicate with is an obstinate noodlehead.

[eider]

Insults are a failure to respond.

When folks throw insults, this is a sure sign that they have nothing of value to offer.

[eider]

He talked about what Jesus did all the time. How he created the world, how he sacrificed himself for our sins, how he died and was resurrected, how he visited him on the road to Damascus, etc. You just keep ignoring that and repeating your nonsense. Your biggest problem is that you have never bothered to READ Paul's letters and seem to be relying on some third party source for your "facts".

But none of those claims focus upon what he actually did and said........ Mark's gospel includes a whole year in Jesus's life, G-John claims a whole three years in his life, and yet not one amazing incident worth recording b y Paul?

But you're right.......... I don't believe that Jesus created the universe, nor was resurrected, nor spoke with Saul on the road.
Paul's letters are crucial for an HC student, not an HJ student.

[tabibito]

The Fall and Original Sin are foundation beliefs of Christianity based on the dominant Christian interpretation of scripture for over two millennia.

Original Sin is not to be found in scripture. That concept developed from the fourth or perhaps third century.

ON OCCASION????

Yes, on occasion. No-one goes throughout life invariably sinning.

unless the truth has been received?!?!? How do you 'judge' when truth is received? As far as the objective evidence stands no one has avoided 'sinning.' It is the nature of being human regardless of whether God exists or not.

The signs are simple enough, if the truth has been received, the person's life will conform with the teachings. If you are saying that no-one avoided sinning, you are correct. If you are saying that no-one can avoid sin, you are incorrect. Scant few have, and it is to be expected that every now and then, a scant few will.


ETA: Part of Jesus' mission was to make it possible for people who receive the truth to be set free from bondage to sin. A person unable to stop sinning has not been set free from bondage to sin. The concept of theosis predates the concept of original sin by at least a couple of centuries.

[shunyadragon]

It is a side-note, though not the theme. Of course, "receiving" involves somewhat more than merely having it given.



"Original sin" is a concept foreign to scripture," "Condemned to deliberately sin" ... ON OCCASION ... unless the truth has been received, at which time deliberately sinning is no longer unavoidable.

The Fall and Original Sin are foundation beliefs of Christianity based on the dominant Christian interpretation of scripture for over two millennia..

ON OCCASION????

. . . unless the truth has been received?!?!? How do you 'judge' when truth is received? As far as the objective evidence stands no one has avoided 'sinning.' It is the nature of being human regardless of whether God exists or not.

[shunyadragon]

You sound like an insane chatbot, Shuny.

Insults are a failure to respond.

[tabibito]

You sound like an insane chatbot, Shuny.

It is a side-note, though not the theme. Of course, "receiving" involves somewhat more than merely having it given.

because of the FALL and the original sin we are all condemned to deliberately sin.'

"Original sin" is a concept foreign to scripture," "Condemned to deliberately sin" ... ON OCCASION ... unless the truth has been received, at which time deliberately sinning is no longer unavoidable.

[Sparko]

You have misread the citation to justify your agenda in the greater context. Both apply the citation was very very specific when referring to 'receiving the truth.' Considering the many diverse conflicting claims of receiving the truth remains a problem. The concept Biblically in Christianity is that because of the FALL and the original sin we are all condemned to deliberately sin.'

You sound like an insane chatbot, Shuny.

[shunyadragon]

It's shuny.

Phiffffftt airball! is a meaningless nonresponse . . .

You like Sparko have misread the citation to justify your agenda without the greater context and the context of the thread. Both apply the citation was very very specific when referring to 'receiving the truth.' Considering the many diverse conflicting claims of receiving the truth remains a problem. The concept Biblically in Christianity is that because of the FALL and the original sin we are ALL condemned to deliberately sin and do.'

[shunyadragon]

How the heck did you misread that quote so badly? It was not about "receiving the truth" but about continuing to deliberately sin after being saved.

You have misread the citation to justify your agenda in the greater context. Both apply the citation was very very specific when referring to 'receiving the truth.' Considering the many diverse conflicting claims of receiving the truth remains a problem. The concept Biblically in Christianity is that because of the FALL and the original sin we are all condemned to deliberately sin.'

[rogue06]

How the heck did you misread that quote so badly? It was not about "receiving the truth" but about continuing to deliberately sin after being saved.

It's shuny.