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Did Christianity lose its way?

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  • Originally posted by Sparko View Post

    So Jesus said not one jot or tittle of the law shall pass until ALL BE FULFILLED. And he said he came to FULFILL the Law.

    What does that tell you eider? Come on, it's easy.
    You give him too much credit.

    I'm always still in trouble again

    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
    "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
    "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

    Comment


    • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
      You give him too much credit.
      And as I keep telling him the Law is still there. Just that we are not under it. Jesus replaces the law. Faith in Jesus forgives all sins. But eider and all pagans are still under the Law, or to be precise under their conscience. The Jews who refused to accept Jesus are still under the Law, except they have no way to get forgiveness since they can't do sacrifices now. Strange how after Jesus died, the Temple was destroyed, eh?

      Romans 2
      12 All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. 13 For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. 14 (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.) 16 This will take place on the day when God judges people’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.

      Romans 3
      21 But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22 This righteousness is given through faith in[h] Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile, 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. 25 God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement,[i] through the shedding of his blood—to be received by faith. He did this to demonstrate his righteousness, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished— 26 he did it to demonstrate his righteousness at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.

      27 Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. Because of what law? The law that requires works? No, because of the law that requires faith. 28 For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the law. 29 Or is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles too? Yes, of Gentiles too, 30 since there is only one God, who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through that same faith. 31 Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.


      Comment


      • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

        And here's the part you repeatedly ignore, you fool: "I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil."
        Naughty naughty.....
        Matthew {5:22} But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

        Oxford Thesaurus:-
        Fulfill:- Accomplish. Carry out. Execute. Perform. Comply with.......... and others.

        He didn't mean that you could ignore scores and scores of brilliant laws whilst becoming a maniac over others.
        But, yes, Jesus did want an end to many priesthood incomes etc.


        You're just wasting our time with your stiff-necked wilful ignorance.

        Scripture Verse: Matthew 7

        "Do not give dogs what is holy, and do not throw your pearls before pigs, lest they trample them underfoot and turn to attack you."

        © Copyright Original Source

        You don't really think that you and your mindset are 'like pearls', do you?
        Also, I always take great caution over people who claim to be holy.
        Last edited by eider; 02-11-2023, 01:18 AM.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Sparko View Post

          So Jesus said not one jot or tittle of the law shall pass until ALL BE FULFILLED. And he said he came to FULFILL the Law.

          What does that tell you eider? Come on, it's easy.
          Yes, it's easy.... Jesus wanted to bring back all the laws that the priesthood and leadership in his country had discarded. he want to fulfill, carry out, execute, perform, achieve and conform to all of them.

          In my opinion (much of) Christianity has taken a word and left so many wonderful laws behind, and clung to so many that are long outdated. Salad bar?

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Sparko View Post

            And as I keep telling him the Law is still there. Just that we are not under it. Jesus replaces the law. Faith in Jesus forgives all sins. But eider and all pagans are still under the Law, or to be precise under their conscience. The Jews who refused to accept Jesus are still under the Law, except they have no way to get forgiveness since they can't do sacrifices now. Strange how after Jesus died, the Temple was destroyed, eh?

            Romans 2
            12 All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. 13 For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. 14 (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.) 16 This will take place on the day when God judges people’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.

            Romans 3
            21 But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22 This righteousness is given through faith in[h] Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile, 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. 25 God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement,[i] through the shedding of his blood—to be received by faith. He did this to demonstrate his righteousness, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished— 26 he did it to demonstrate his righteousness at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.

            27 Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. Because of what law? The law that requires works? No, because of the law that requires faith. 28 For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the law. 29 Or is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles too? Yes, of Gentiles too, 30 since there is only one God, who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through that same faith. 31 Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.
            You just keep publishing so many of Paul's words.........where are the words and actions of Jesus which show such a different guide?

            But, yes, I am under the law, but it's the same law that you are under...the Law of Nature, I think of it as Mother Nature but that's just my way of seeing the all powerful laws of Nature. I don't believe in any heaven after life...... you're heaven and hell both are right here in life, I think.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by eider View Post

              Naughty naughty.....
              Matthew {5:22} But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

              Oxford Thesaurus:-
              Fulfill:- Accomplish. Carry out. Execute. Perform. Comply with.......... and others.
              Dishonest dishonest...

              Fulfill has other synonyms as well such as accomplish, achieve and attain are just some of those that start with the letter "A."

              I'm always still in trouble again

              "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
              "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
              "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

              Comment


              • [QUOTE=eider;n1457553]

                Oxford Thesaurus:-
                Fulfill:- Accomplish. Carry out. Execute. Perform. Comply with.......... and others.
                It's a good thing that we have the scriptures to disambiguate the use of the word.

                He didn't mean that you could ignore scores and scores of brilliant laws whilst becoming a maniac over others.
                But, yes, Jesus did want an end to many priesthood incomes etc.
                Jesus wanted the laws of Moses and the prophets replaced by a better set of laws, which couldn't be done while he lived. Again, it is a good thing that we have the scriptures to give exposition, rather than having to lean on our own understanding.
                Last edited by tabibito; 02-11-2023, 12:04 PM.
                1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
                .
                ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
                Scripture before Tradition:
                but that won't prevent others from
                taking it upon themselves to deprive you
                of the right to call yourself Christian.

                ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

                Comment


                • Originally posted by eider View Post

                  Naughty naughty.....
                  Matthew {5:22} But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

                  Oxford Thesaurus:-
                  Fulfill:- Accomplish. Carry out. Execute. Perform. Comply with.......... and others.

                  He didn't mean that you could ignore scores and scores of brilliant laws whilst becoming a maniac over others.
                  But, yes, Jesus did want an end to many priesthood incomes etc.




                  You don't really think that you and your mindset are 'like pearls', do you?
                  Also, I always take great caution over people who claim to be holy.
                  1) I'm not angry; 2) You're not my brother; 3) You really are a fool.

                  Tell me, when the terms of a contract are fulfilled, are you still bound by that contract?
                  Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                  But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                  Than a fool in the eyes of God


                  From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

                    1) I'm not angry;
                    If you called out your filth in anger then I would understand, but if you can do it in the cool of mind then I can only think the less of you.

                    On another thread you mentioned that I dismiss what suits me, which is absolutely correct!
                    And so, Mountain Man, do you.

                    2) You're not my brother; 3) You really are a fool.
                    That I am no relation of yours can only bring me joy, Mountain Man.
                    You don't know what fools, cretins and morons are, you use those terms as insults which tells me so much about you.

                    Tell me, when the terms of a contract are fulfilled, are you still bound by that contract?
                    If you think that the old laws were all finished with on the death (or Christian rebirth) of Jesus, why do you cling to some of those laws with such fixation now?
                    Why...... it's as if you just cherry-picked the ones you like as if at a salad bar.

                    Why?



                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by eider View Post
                      If you called out your filth in anger then I would understand, but if you can do it in the cool of mind then I can only think the less of you.

                      On another thread you mentioned that I dismiss what suits me, which is absolutely correct!
                      And so, Mountain Man, do you.


                      That I am no relation of yours can only bring me joy, Mountain Man.
                      You don't know what fools, cretins and morons are, you use those terms as insults which tells me so much about you.


                      If you think that the old laws were all finished with on the death (or Christian rebirth) of Jesus, why do you cling to some of those laws with such fixation now?
                      Why...... it's as if you just cherry-picked the ones you like as if at a salad bar.

                      Why?


                      You fool, the laws of the Old Covenant continue to be instructive even if we are not bound by them under the terms of the New Covenant.

                      Which of the laws of the Old Covenant do you accuse me of being "fixated" on?
                      Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                      But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                      Than a fool in the eyes of God


                      From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by eider View Post

                        Yes, it's easy.... Jesus wanted to bring back all the laws that the priesthood and leadership in his country had discarded. he want to fulfill, carry out, execute, perform, achieve and conform to all of them.


                        That must be why he got so angry at the Pharisees who kept the letter of the law to the point that it interfered with the intent of the law. Like rescuing an animal on the Sabbath!

                        They didn't discard the law, they followed it to a fault. They nitpicked the smallest violations. They would keep the law even if it led to someone dying on the sabbath or starved. Read Matthew 12 and Matthew 23.

                        Jesus made it a point to say that the letter of the law was impossible to keep and that the whole law was summed up by 1> Love God with all your heart and 2> Love your neighbor as yourself.







                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by eider View Post

                          You just keep publishing so many of Paul's words.........where are the words and actions of Jesus which show such a different guide?

                          But, yes, I am under the law, but it's the same law that you are under...the Law of Nature, I think of it as Mother Nature but that's just my way of seeing the all powerful laws of Nature. I don't believe in any heaven after life...... you're heaven and hell both are right here in life, I think.
                          The bible is more than just the gospels.

                          Tell me, if someone wrote a book that was not as clear as it could be in some areas, who would you trust to clarify those points? Someone like you living 2000 years later, relying on a translation, or the people who were actually there, living at the time the events occurred and who knew Jesus personally, or knew the disciples personally?


                          Last edited by Sparko; 02-13-2023, 01:42 PM.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Sparko View Post

                            The bible is more than just the gospels.

                            Tell me, if someone wrote a book that was not as clear as it could be in some areas, who would you trust to clarify those points? Someone like you living 2000 years later, relying on a translation, or the people who were actually there, living at the time the events occurred and who knew Jesus personally, or knew the disciples personally?
                            Less than half of the NT.

                            I'm always still in trouble again

                            "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                            "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                            "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

                              You fool, the laws of the Old Covenant continue to be instructive even if we are not bound by them under the terms of the New Covenant.
                              What an absolute cop out!
                              So Mountain Man can dismiss the Mosaic Laws with one hand and enforce some of them with the other?

                              And yet to bust requests and commands of Jesus as you please...? Like Matthew 5:22?

                              Where is your integrity? You think and call me fool, but I think you are an hypocrite.

                              Which of the laws of the Old Covenant do you accuse me of being "fixated" on?
                              My very first thought as an example was Leviticus 18:22.

                              I do not want to judge anybody by any of my poor standards, so I listen to people and then judge them by theirs. You get a 'fail', old dear.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Sparko View Post

                                But eider and all pagans are still under the Law, or to be precise under their conscience. T
                                Under the law of Nature, yes. And all those of us who are free of psychosis have conscience.
                                Same would go for everybody.

                                Comment

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