Originally posted by tabibito
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This forum is open discussion between atheists and all theists to defend and debate their views on religion or non-religion. Please respect that this is a Christian-owned forum and refrain from gratuitous blasphemy. VERY wide leeway is given in range of expression and allowable behavior as compared to other areas of the forum, and moderation is not overly involved unless necessary. Please keep this in mind. Atheists who wish to interact with theists in a way that does not seek to undermine theistic faith may participate in the World Religions Department. Non-debate question and answers and mild and less confrontational discussions can take place in General Theistics.
Forum Rules: Here
This forum is open discussion between atheists and all theists to defend and debate their views on religion or non-religion. Please respect that this is a Christian-owned forum and refrain from gratuitous blasphemy. VERY wide leeway is given in range of expression and allowable behavior as compared to other areas of the forum, and moderation is not overly involved unless necessary. Please keep this in mind. Atheists who wish to interact with theists in a way that does not seek to undermine theistic faith may participate in the World Religions Department. Non-debate question and answers and mild and less confrontational discussions can take place in General Theistics.
Forum Rules: Here
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Did Christianity lose its way?
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I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
He seems to think "the way" has some special meaning every time it appears in scripture, but then you have verses like the following which renders his hypothesis nonsensical:
And literally hundreds of other verses.Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.
Beige Federalist.
Nationalist Christian.
"Everybody is somebody's heretic."
Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.
Proud member of the this space left blank community.
Would-be Grand Vizier of the Padishah Maxi-Super-Ultra-Hyper-Mega-MAGA King Trumpius Rex.
Justice for Ashli Babbitt!
Justice for Matthew Perna!
Arrest Ray Epps and his Fed bosses!
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Originally posted by RumTumTugger View PostHas any one picked up that eider is trying to understand the word way using The Original King James. I don't have access to my usual bible study helps some one who does might want to explain to eider the OT usage in Hebrew and NT usage in Greek.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
- 1 like
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
Yeah, I thought about that, but he can't even grasp the more basic principles of "context", let alone Biblical languages.
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
- 1 like
Comment
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Originally posted by RumTumTugger View PostHas any one picked up that eider is trying to understand the word way using The Original King James. I don't have access to my usual bible study helps some one who does might want to explain to eider the OT usage in Hebrew and NT usage in Greek.1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
.⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
Scripture before Tradition:
but that won't prevent others from
taking it upon themselves to deprive you
of the right to call yourself Christian.
⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
- 2 likes
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Originally posted by One Bad Pig View PostI figure I should at least let you reach your conclusion before commenting. Who knows? You might stumble upon the right answer.
But since the Prophet Isaiah was focused wholly upon the need for a return of the law and the way, and since the Baptist made the same calls, and since Jesus named him thus and yet you haven't seen any of it.
Here.... instead of showing you the continuity from Exodus, let me just show you a few verses from Isaiah and Matthew, and 'the path' was another term for keeping the law:-
ISAIAH {2:3} And many people shall go and say, Come ye,
and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house
of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and
we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the
law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.
ISAIAH {30:9} That this [is] a rebellious people, lying
children, children [that] will not hear the law of the LORD:
{30:10} Which say to the seers, See not; and to the
prophets, Prophesy not unto us right things, speak unto us
smooth things, prophesy deceits: {30:11} Get you out of the
way, turn aside out of the path, cause the Holy One of Israel
to cease from before us.
ISAIAH {40:3} The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness,
Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert
a highway for our God. {40:4} Every valley shall be
exalted, and every mountain and hill shall be made low: and
the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough places
plain:
ISAIAH {42:24}
Who gave Jacob for a spoil, and Israel to the robbers? did
not the LORD, he against whom we have sinned? for they
would not walk in his ways, neither were they obedient unto his law.
------------------------------------------------------
Matthew {3:1} In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in
the wilderness of Judaea, {3:2} And saying, Repent ye: for
the kingdom of heaven is at hand. {3:3} For this is he that
was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of
one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the
Lord, make his paths straight. {3:4} And the same John had
his raiment of camel’s hair, and a leathern girdle about his
loins; and his meat was locusts and wild honey. {3:5} Then
went out to him Jerusalem, and all Judaea, and all the region
round about Jordan, {3:6} And were baptized of him in
Jordan, confessing their sins.
{3:7} But when he saw many of the Pharisees and
Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O
generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the
wrath to come?
{4:12} Now when Jesus had heard that John was cast into
prison, he departed into Galilee; {4:13} And leaving
Nazareth, he came and dwelt in Capernaum, which is upon
the sea coast, in the borders of Zabulon and Nephthalim:
{4:14} That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by
Esaias the prophet, saying, {4:15} The land of Zabulon, and
the land of Nephthalim, [by] the way of the sea, beyond
Jordan, Galilee of the Gentiles; {4:16} The people which
sat in darkness saw great light; and to them which sat in the
region and shadow of death light is sprung up. {4:17} From
that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the
kingdom of heaven is at hand.
{11:7} And as they departed, Jesus began to say unto the
multitudes concerning John, What went ye out into the
wilderness to see? A reed shaken with the wind? {11:8} But
what went ye out for to see? A man clothed in soft raiment?
behold, they that wear soft [clothing] are in kings’ houses.
{11:9} But what went ye out for to see? A prophet? yea, I
say unto you, and more than a prophet. {11:10} For this is
[he,] of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger
{11:11} Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of
women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist:
notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is
greater than he. {11:12} And from the days of John the
Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence,
and the violent take it by force. {11:13} For all the prophets
and the law prophesied until John. {11:14} And if ye will
receive [it,] this is Elias, which was for to come. {11:15}
He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.
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This has become very interesting indeed.
Verses have been posted which show a clear continuity of purpose, not only through the Old Testament but in to the New Testament.
And since Christianity has dumped nearly the whole lot excepting a few cherry-picked laws I can see why there is so much insult thrown.
I haven't even got to the gospel of John yet nor the letters of Paul, and the catcalls and ridicule tell me so much.
Look once again at how the Old meets the New, how the prophet Isaiah raged against the lawlessness of his time, and spoke of a prophet to come in the Baptist who had the same clear message, and how Jesus came with the same message from Isaiah as well.......... see some verses which support this, and let's see who can write against it all with some real evidence.
ISAIAH {2:3} And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.
ISAIAH {30:9} That this [is] a rebellious people, lying children, children [that] will not hear the law of the LORD: {30:10} Which say to the seers, See not; and to the prophets, Prophesy not unto us right things, speak unto us smooth things, prophesy deceits: {30:11} Get you out of the way, turn aside out of the path, cause the Holy One of Israel to cease from before us.
ISAIAH {40:3} The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God. {40:4} Every valley shall be exalted, and every mountain and hill shall be made low: and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough places plain:
ISAIAH {42:24} Who gave Jacob for a spoil, and Israel to the robbers? did not the LORD, he against whom we have sinned? for they would not walk in his ways, neither were they obedient unto his law.
------------------------------------------------------
Matthew {3:1} In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judaea, {3:2} And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. {3:3} For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight. {3:4} And the same John had his raiment of camel’s hair, and a leathern girdle about his loins; and his meat was locusts and wild honey. {3:5} Then went out to him Jerusalem, and all Judaea, and all the region round about Jordan, {3:6} And were baptized of him in Jordan, confessing their sins. {3:7} But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?
{4:12} Now when Jesus had heard that John was cast into prison, he departed into Galilee; {4:13} And leaving Nazareth, he came and dwelt in Capernaum, which is upon the sea coast, in the borders of Zabulon and Nephthalim: {4:14} That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying, {4:15} The land of Zabulon, and the land of Nephthalim, [by] the way of the sea, beyond Jordan, Galilee of the Gentiles; {4:16} The people which sat in darkness saw great light; and to them which sat in the region and shadow of death light is sprung up. {4:17} From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
{11:7} And as they departed, Jesus began to say unto the multitudes concerning John, What went ye out into the wilderness to see? A reed shaken with the wind? {11:8} But what went ye out for to see? A man clothed in soft raiment? behold, they that wear soft [clothing] are in kings’ houses. {11:9} But what went ye out for to see? A prophet? yea, I say unto you, and more than a prophet. {11:10} For this is [he,] of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger
{11:11} Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he. {11:12} And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force. {11:13} For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John. {11:14} And if ye will receive [it,] this is Elias, which was for to come. {11:15} He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.
Continuity....... of purpose.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
Yeah, I thought about that, but he can't even grasp the more basic principles of "context", let alone Biblical languages.
...looking forward to that, if you can do it.
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Originally posted by RumTumTugger View PostHas any one picked up that eider is trying to understand the word way using The Original King James. I don't have access to my usual bible study helps some one who does might want to explain to eider the OT usage in Hebrew and NT usage in Greek.
And how can the words of Jesus about John and the law (as previously shown) not be in exact purpose?
It looks as if you are claiming that the translators have got everything wrong? Show me how.... please?
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Originally posted by eider View Post
Why not tell me that? And you can show me where the verses shown do not have continuity and contect?
...looking forward to that, if you can do it.
Hebrews 8:6-13
6 ... He is also the mediator of a better covenant, which has been enacted on better promises. 7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion sought for a second.
13 When He said, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear.
Galatians 3:24 Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith. 25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.
That should do for a start
The Old Covenant was rendered obsolete, it was replaced with the New Covenant - which has its own laws, some of which are similar to the Old Testament law.1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
.⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
Scripture before Tradition:
but that won't prevent others from
taking it upon themselves to deprive you
of the right to call yourself Christian.
⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
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Originally posted by eider View Post
Tell me........ and show me how I am wrong. Or is that beyond your debating grade?
You might as well be combining Matthew 27:5b with Luke 10:37b
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
- 1 like
Comment
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
No foolin' -- one night, I woke up about 3 AM, and went out into the living room to watch some TV.
A TV "evangelist" was on (don't remember his name, he used to sit in a recliner smoking a cigar while "preaching") and he had just said "Peter was a jerk".
I turned the channel to find something else, but was really curious about his statement, so I switched back to see what he said.
Again, no foolin', he looked right into the camera, and said "some of you switched to another channel, but couldn't help yourselves, and you came back".
I turned off the TV and went back to bed.When I Survey....
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I did some searching. That was Dr. Gene Scott, He died in 2005 at the age of 75. He owned four television stations. The FCC shut down three of them and he managed to sell the fourth before the FCC could shut that one down.
There is a lot about him on the internet, but I don't want to derail this thread.
gene scott.jpgAttached FilesWhen I Survey....
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