Did Christianity lose its way?

[rogue06]

Unsubscribed - y'all don't do anything silly while I'm away!

Ouch. That last bit has some history here

[Cow Poke]

Ouch. That last bit has some history here

Yes, I typed it with a note of sadness and fond memory.

For those who don't know - those were the last words FreezBee typed before he disappeared, and I discovered through his workplace that he had passed away.

[Cow Poke]

Yes, I typed it with a note of sadness and fond memory.

For those who don't know - those were the last words FreezBee typed before he disappeared, and I discovered through his workplace that he had passed away.

Hmmmmmm - I'm unsubscribed, but still got this notification -- maybe it takes a while to "process"?

[tabibito]

Hmmmmmm - I'm unsubscribed, but still got this notification -- maybe it takes a while to "process"?

I do believe that "NN quoted you in a post" bypasses the "unsubscribed". Not speaking from knowledge, acos I never subscribe so unsubscribing isn't anything I've ever done.

[Cow Poke]

I do believe that "NN quoted you in a post" bypasses the "unsubscribed". Not speaking from knowledge, acos I never subscribe so unsubscribing isn't anything I've ever done.

I'll ignore any 'notifications' about this thread (after I respond to this one) and see if it's just a matter of time before I stop getting notifications.

[Sparko]

In the old Testament, the Way to Be saved (live forever with God) was to obey the Law. When Jesus came he explained that he was the Way and he fulfilled the Law so the Way to Be Saved was through HIM, and that the purpose of the law was more important than the letter of the law. That the Law showed us our trespasses, and that nobody was able to obey it perfectly because only God is perfect and we are sinful fallen creatures. That is why he gave them sacrifices, They did sacrifices in order to be forgiven for their breaking of the Law. When Jesus came he was the ultimate sacrifice, what the OT sacrifices were shadowing. That by his sacrifice, those who have faith in him and choose to follow his "way" would be saved and no longer under the Law.

So Jesus is the NEW WAY, that replaces the OLD WAY (the Law and Sacrifices)

As I said if you would bother to read the book of Hebrews, it explains all this.

[rogue06]

I'll ignore any 'notifications' about this thread (after I respond to this one) and see if it's just a matter of time before I stop getting notifications.

Lessee if I can send Cow Poke two notifications at once.

[tabibito]

In the old Testament, the Way to Be saved (live forever with God) was to obey the Law. When Jesus came he explained that he was the Way and he fulfilled the Law so the Way to Be Saved was through HIM, and that the purpose of the law was more important than the letter of the law. That the Law showed us our trespasses, and that nobody was able to obey it perfectly because only God is perfect and we are sinful fallen creatures. That is why he gave them sacrifices, They did sacrifices in order to be forgiven for their breaking of the Law. When Jesus came he was the ultimate sacrifice, what the OT sacrifices were shadowing. That by his sacrifice, those who have faith in him and choose to follow his "way" would be saved and no longer under the Law.

So Jesus is the NEW WAY, that replaces the OLD WAY (the Law and Sacrifices)

As I said if you would bother to read the book of Hebrews, it explains all this.

And then there's the "sacred way"
seidou avatar.jpgor perhaps seidou logo 1.jpg

[eider]

You could at least give your accusations some semblance of portraying reality.

The very focus and MO of Isaiah's mission was for a return of law and order....... and his call was repeated with the appearance of the Baptist.
Please read the opening verses of Isaiah which I have included below for your scrutiny.

That which has been fulfilled, as was explained earlier and as the Bible itself declares, is fulfilled - completed. As scripture also declares with regard to the law and the prophets, there is not requirement to continue to conduct a procedure that has been fulfilled. In fulfilling the law and the prophets, Jesus paved the way for the Old Covenant to be replaced by the New. Jesus did not call for a return to adherence to the law, but an adherence to God (aka the Kingdom of Heaven) - the same call that was made by the OT prophets.

There is no semblance of reality in what you try to spin here....... In the NT the provinces were riddled with corruption and disorder, just as in Isaiah's time, which was still the case after that last week in Jesus's campaign.

Nothing was fulfilled at all!

Isaiah {1:4} Ah sinful nation, a people laden with iniquity, a seed of evildoers, children that are corrupters: they have forsaken the LORD, they have provoked the Holy One of Israel unto anger, they are gone away backward. {1:5} Why should ye be stricken any more? ye will revolt more and more: the whole head is sick, and the whole heart faint. {1:6} From the sole of the foot even unto the head [there is] no soundness in it; [but] wounds, and bruises, and putrifying sores: they have not been closed, neither bound up, neither mollified with ointment. {1:7} Your country [is] desolate, your cities [are] burned with fire: your land, strangers devour it in your presence, and [it is] desolate, as overthrown by strangers.

And so he called out:-
ISAIAH {40:3} The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God. {40:4} Every valley shall be exalted, and every mountain and hill shall be made low: and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough places plain:

............. which became the Baptist's mission, and then Jesus's!

That's what reality is, tabibito.

[eider]

Why are you ignoring my response in post #73?

Picking two completely different verses than any that I have used is redirection, a bit typical of you?

Again........... Pick any two verses shown in the OP and then show how they do not have a similar message?

I won't bother to ask again.

[eider]

Take a good look at what I highlighted in Matthew 5:17. Now ask yourself: when the terms of a contract are fulfilled, are you still obligated to live under the terms of that contract?

Nothing was fulfilled!

Let's go back to the conditions in Isaiah's time:-

Isaiah {1:4} Ah sinful nation, a people laden with iniquity, a seed of evildoers, children that are corrupters: they have forsaken the LORD, they have provoked the Holy One of Israel unto anger, they are gone away backward. {1:5} Why should ye be stricken any more? ye will revolt more and more: the whole head is sick, and the whole heart faint. {1:6} From the sole of the foot even unto the head [there is] no soundness in it; [but] wounds, and bruises, and putrifying sores: they have not been closed, neither bound up, neither mollified with ointment. {1:7} Your country [is] desolate, your cities [are] burned with fire: your land, strangers devour it in your presence, and [it is] desolate, as overthrown by strangers.

And so he called out:-
ISAIAH {40:3} The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God. {40:4} Every valley shall be exalted, and every mountain and hill shall be made low: and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough places plain:

And then came the answer to his call, can you see how this was exactly what Isaiah was calling for?:-
Mark {1:3} The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight. {1:4} John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.

And then Jesus made the call:-
Matthew {5:17} Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. {5:18} For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. {5:19} Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever
shall do and teach [them,] the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.


.............. STILL the land continued to be lawless, corrupt and backward......no fulfillment.

[eider]

In the old Testament, the Way to Be saved (live forever with God) was to obey the Law.

No it was not!
It was as the Abrahamic God explained.....
See how God explained it:-
LEVITCUS {20:22} Ye shall therefore keep all my statutes, and all my judgments, and do them: that the land, whither I bring you to dwell therein, spue you not out. {20:23} And ye shall not walk in the manners of the nation, which I cast out before you: for they committed all these things, and therefore I abhorred them. {20:24} But I have said unto you, Ye shall inherit their land, and I will give it unto you to possess it, a land that floweth with milk and honey: I [am] the LORD your God, which have separated you from [other] people.

DEUTERONOMY {5:33} Ye shall walk in all the ways which the LORD your God hath commanded you, that ye may live, and [that it may be] well with you, and [that] ye may prolong [your] days in the land which ye shall possess. {6:1} Now these [are] the commandments, the statutes, and the judgments,

When Jesus came he explained that he was the Way and he fulfilled the Law so the Way to Be Saved was through HIM, and that the purpose of the law was more important than the letter of the law. That the Law showed us our trespasses, and that nobody was able to obey it perfectly because only God is perfect and we are sinful fallen creatures. That is why he gave them sacrifices, They did sacrifices in order to be forgiven for their breaking of the Law. When Jesus came he was the ultimate sacrifice, what the OT sacrifices were shadowing. That by his sacrifice, those who have faith in him and choose to follow his "way" would be saved and no longer under the Law.

I think you lost your way there..... this is what Jesus said:-
Matthew {5:17} Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. {5:18} For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. {5:19} Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever
shall do and teach [them,] the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

=restoration of the old laws.

So Jesus is the NEW WAY, that replaces the OLD WAY (the Law and Sacrifices)

Jesus redacted the need for sacrifices, saying. But you have sneaked the entire law in with that!
Matthew {9:13} But go ye and learn what [that] meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Now show me where Jesus said that there was no more need for the Law.

As I said if you would bother to read the book of Hebrews, it explains all this.

Nowhere, anywhere in the book of Hebrews does Paul quote Jesus!

Your religion seems to ignore what Jesus said and make Paul your prophet....... truly!

[tabibito]

Nothing was fulfilled!

It was needed for only one person, in his own person and action, to fulfil the terms (law) of the Old Covenant. That person was Jesus.

Let's go back to the conditions in Isaiah's time:-

Isaiah {1:4} Ah sinful nation, a people laden with iniquity, a seed of evildoers, children that are corrupters: they have forsaken the LORD, they have provoked the Holy One of Israel unto anger, they are gone away backward. {1:5} Why should ye be stricken any more? ye will revolt more and more: the whole head is sick, and the whole heart faint. {1:6} From the sole of the foot even unto the head [there is] no soundness in it; [but] wounds, and bruises, and putrifying sores: they have not been closed, neither bound up, neither mollified with ointment. {1:7} Your country [is] desolate, your cities [are] burned with fire: your land, strangers devour it in your presence, and [it is] desolate, as overthrown by strangers.



And so he called out:-
ISAIAH {40:3} The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God. {40:4} Every valley shall be exalted, and every mountain and hill shall be made low: and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough places plain:

And then came the answer to his call, can you see how this was exactly what Isaiah was calling for?:-
Mark {1:3} The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight. {1:4} John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.

John seems to have been the last of the prophets under the Old Covenant, as indicated by Jesus' statement "Until John, the law and the prophets (were proclaimed).

And then Jesus made the call:-
Matthew {5:17} Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. {5:18} For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. {5:19} Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever
shall do and teach [them,] the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Which the New Testament authors affirmed. If the Old Covenant were still being proclaimed, anyone violating the least of the terms of the Old Covenant would be in violation of the Old Covenant in its entirety. The Old Covenant/Testament did, however, continue in force until Jesus' death. Hebrews 9:16 For where there is a testament, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. 17 For a testament is in force after men are dead, since it has no power at all while the testator lives.
｛[Many will claim otherwise> The New Covenant could not be introduced while the testator (God) lived. For that cause (among others), Logos became man and as any man will, died.｝

.............. STILL the land continued to be lawless, corrupt and backward......no fulfillment.

It remains so, which has nothing to do with fulfilment of the terms of the Old Covenant. The evil generation asked for signs which would not be granted, but in the same time and place, signs were granted to large numbers of people who asked. (Just cogitating> Perhaps the Old Covenant does remain in force; it might be that the New Covenant is in place only for those who love God, though it is simple* enough to leave the Old Covenant behind.

*Someone once commented that ... the fact that a thing is simple doesn't imply that it is easy.

[Mountain Man]

Nothing was fulfilled!

Let's go back to the conditions in Isaiah's time:-

Isaiah {1:4} Ah sinful nation, a people laden with iniquity, a seed of evildoers, children that are corrupters: they have forsaken the LORD, they have provoked the Holy One of Israel unto anger, they are gone away backward. {1:5} Why should ye be stricken any more? ye will revolt more and more: the whole head is sick, and the whole heart faint. {1:6} From the sole of the foot even unto the head [there is] no soundness in it; [but] wounds, and bruises, and putrifying sores: they have not been closed, neither bound up, neither mollified with ointment. {1:7} Your country [is] desolate, your cities [are] burned with fire: your land, strangers devour it in your presence, and [it is] desolate, as overthrown by strangers.

And so he called out:-
ISAIAH {40:3} The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God. {40:4} Every valley shall be exalted, and every mountain and hill shall be made low: and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough places plain:

And then came the answer to his call, can you see how this was exactly what Isaiah was calling for?:-
Mark {1:3} The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight. {1:4} John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.

And then Jesus made the call:-
Matthew {5:17} Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. {5:18} For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. {5:19} Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever
shall do and teach [them,] the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.


.............. STILL the land continued to be lawless, corrupt and backward......no fulfillment.

Jesus explicitly said that his purpose was to fulfill the law, which he did through his death and resurrection. He also clearly told his disciples that with his sacrifice, he was giving them a New Covenant; therefore, we are no longer living under the terms of the Old Covenant.

[rogue06]

Picking two completely different verses than any that I have used is redirection, a bit typical of you?

It is exactly what you are doing. You select some verses and start making artificial connections to support something that the verses simply are not saying.