Did Christianity lose its way?

[rogue06]

So then - what do you understand by the law being fulfilled? Do you think that once an obligation has been fulfilled, there remains a requirement to continue to meet the terms of that obligation? When the terms on a mortgage for a house, for example, have been fulfilled, is the householder required to continue to make payments on the mortgage?

Good God man! Have you no idea what you are doing, asking eider to use logic like that?

[NorrinRadd]

He seems to think "the way" has some special meaning every time it appears in scripture, but then you have verses like the following which renders his hypothesis nonsensical:

Scripture Verse: Genesis 16:7

The angel of the Lord found her by a spring of water in the wilderness, the spring on the way to Shur.

© Copyright Original Source

Scripture Verse: Genesis 18:11

Now Abraham and Sarah were old, advanced in years. The way of women had ceased to be with Sarah.

© Copyright Original Source

Scripture Verse: Judges 1:24

And the spies saw a man coming out of the city, and they said to him, “Please show us the way into the city, and we will deal kindly with you.”

© Copyright Original Source

Scripture Verse: Isaiah 8:11

For the Lord spoke thus to me with his strong hand upon me, and warned me not to walk in the way of this people...

© Copyright Original Source

And literally hundreds of other verses.

Right. Even when Capitalized, it's often the name of an actual physical, geographical road or path, and that Capitalization varies among translators.

[RumTumTugger]

Has any one picked up that eider is trying to understand the word way using The Original King James. I don't have access to my usual bible study helps some one who does might want to explain to eider the OT usage in Hebrew and NT usage in Greek.

[Cow Poke]

Has any one picked up that eider is trying to understand the word way using The Original King James. I don't have access to my usual bible study helps some one who does might want to explain to eider the OT usage in Hebrew and NT usage in Greek.

Yeah, I thought about that, but he can't even grasp the more basic principles of "context", let alone Biblical languages.

[rogue06]

Yeah, I thought about that, but he can't even grasp the more basic principles of "context", let alone Biblical languages.

If eider was a Mormon he'd never get passed the "milk" and get any "meat."

[tabibito]

Has any one picked up that eider is trying to understand the word way using The Original King James. I don't have access to my usual bible study helps some one who does might want to explain to eider the OT usage in Hebrew and NT usage in Greek.

I don't believe it would be particularly helpful. The Hebrew and Koine Greek use of "way" is much the same as English. It can mean "method," "means" or "road" (as in highway or byway) in each of the languages.

[eider]

I figure I should at least let you reach your conclusion before commenting. Who knows? You might stumble upon the right answer.

.....and you are going to tell me what those verses referred to, are you? I will repeat them below for you.

But since the Prophet Isaiah was focused wholly upon the need for a return of the law and the way, and since the Baptist made the same calls, and since Jesus named him thus and yet you haven't seen any of it.
Here.... instead of showing you the continuity from Exodus, let me just show you a few verses from Isaiah and Matthew, and 'the path' was another term for keeping the law:-

ISAIAH {2:3} And many people shall go and say, Come ye,
and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house
of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and
we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the
law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.

ISAIAH {30:9} That this [is] a rebellious people, lying
children, children [that] will not hear the law of the LORD:
{30:10} Which say to the seers, See not; and to the
prophets, Prophesy not unto us right things, speak unto us
smooth things, prophesy deceits: {30:11} Get you out of the
way, turn aside out of the path, cause the Holy One of Israel
to cease from before us.

ISAIAH {40:3} The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness,
Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert
a highway for our God. {40:4} Every valley shall be
exalted, and every mountain and hill shall be made low: and
the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough places
plain:

ISAIAH {42:24}
Who gave Jacob for a spoil, and Israel to the robbers? did
not the LORD, he against whom we have sinned? for they
would not walk in his ways, neither were they obedient unto his law.

------------------------------------------------------

Matthew {3:1} In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in
the wilderness of Judaea, {3:2} And saying, Repent ye: for
the kingdom of heaven is at hand. {3:3} For this is he that
was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of
one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the
Lord, make his paths straight. {3:4} And the same John had
his raiment of camel’s hair, and a leathern girdle about his
loins; and his meat was locusts and wild honey. {3:5} Then
went out to him Jerusalem, and all Judaea, and all the region
round about Jordan, {3:6} And were baptized of him in
Jordan, confessing their sins.
{3:7} But when he saw many of the Pharisees and
Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O
generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the
wrath to come?

{4:12} Now when Jesus had heard that John was cast into
prison, he departed into Galilee; {4:13} And leaving
Nazareth, he came and dwelt in Capernaum, which is upon
the sea coast, in the borders of Zabulon and Nephthalim:
{4:14} That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by
Esaias the prophet, saying, {4:15} The land of Zabulon, and
the land of Nephthalim, [by] the way of the sea, beyond
Jordan, Galilee of the Gentiles; {4:16} The people which
sat in darkness saw great light; and to them which sat in the
region and shadow of death light is sprung up. {4:17} From
that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the
kingdom of heaven is at hand.

{11:7} And as they departed, Jesus began to say unto the
multitudes concerning John, What went ye out into the
wilderness to see? A reed shaken with the wind? {11:8} But
what went ye out for to see? A man clothed in soft raiment?
behold, they that wear soft [clothing] are in kings’ houses.
{11:9} But what went ye out for to see? A prophet? yea, I
say unto you, and more than a prophet. {11:10} For this is
[he,] of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger

{11:11} Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of
women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist:
notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is
greater than he. {11:12} And from the days of John the
Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence,
and the violent take it by force. {11:13} For all the prophets
and the law prophesied until John. {11:14} And if ye will
receive [it,] this is Elias, which was for to come. {11:15}
He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.

[eider]

This has become very interesting indeed.
Verses have been posted which show a clear continuity of purpose, not only through the Old Testament but in to the New Testament.
And since Christianity has dumped nearly the whole lot excepting a few cherry-picked laws I can see why there is so much insult thrown.

I haven't even got to the gospel of John yet nor the letters of Paul, and the catcalls and ridicule tell me so much.

Look once again at how the Old meets the New, how the prophet Isaiah raged against the lawlessness of his time, and spoke of a prophet to come in the Baptist who had the same clear message, and how Jesus came with the same message from Isaiah as well.......... see some verses which support this, and let's see who can write against it all with some real evidence.

ISAIAH {2:3} And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.

ISAIAH {30:9} That this [is] a rebellious people, lying children, children [that] will not hear the law of the LORD: {30:10} Which say to the seers, See not; and to the prophets, Prophesy not unto us right things, speak unto us smooth things, prophesy deceits: {30:11} Get you out of the way, turn aside out of the path, cause the Holy One of Israel to cease from before us.

ISAIAH {40:3} The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God. {40:4} Every valley shall be exalted, and every mountain and hill shall be made low: and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough places plain:

ISAIAH {42:24} Who gave Jacob for a spoil, and Israel to the robbers? did not the LORD, he against whom we have sinned? for they would not walk in his ways, neither were they obedient unto his law.

------------------------------------------------------

Matthew {3:1} In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judaea, {3:2} And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. {3:3} For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight. {3:4} And the same John had his raiment of camel’s hair, and a leathern girdle about his loins; and his meat was locusts and wild honey. {3:5} Then went out to him Jerusalem, and all Judaea, and all the region round about Jordan, {3:6} And were baptized of him in Jordan, confessing their sins. {3:7} But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?

{4:12} Now when Jesus had heard that John was cast into prison, he departed into Galilee; {4:13} And leaving Nazareth, he came and dwelt in Capernaum, which is upon the sea coast, in the borders of Zabulon and Nephthalim: {4:14} That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying, {4:15} The land of Zabulon, and the land of Nephthalim, [by] the way of the sea, beyond Jordan, Galilee of the Gentiles; {4:16} The people which sat in darkness saw great light; and to them which sat in the region and shadow of death light is sprung up. {4:17} From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

{11:7} And as they departed, Jesus began to say unto the multitudes concerning John, What went ye out into the wilderness to see? A reed shaken with the wind? {11:8} But what went ye out for to see? A man clothed in soft raiment? behold, they that wear soft [clothing] are in kings’ houses. {11:9} But what went ye out for to see? A prophet? yea, I say unto you, and more than a prophet. {11:10} For this is [he,] of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger

{11:11} Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he. {11:12} And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force. {11:13} For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John. {11:14} And if ye will receive [it,] this is Elias, which was for to come. {11:15} He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.


Continuity....... of purpose.

[eider]

If eider was a Mormon he'd never get passed the "milk" and get any "meat."

Tell me........ and show me how I am wrong. Or is that beyond your debating grade?

[eider]

Yeah, I thought about that, but he can't even grasp the more basic principles of "context", let alone Biblical languages.

Why not tell me that? And you can show me where the verses shown do not have continuity and contect?
...looking forward to that, if you can do it.

[eider]

Has any one picked up that eider is trying to understand the word way using The Original King James. I don't have access to my usual bible study helps some one who does might want to explain to eider the OT usage in Hebrew and NT usage in Greek.

You can help me........... how does Isaiah's call and prophesy not knit with the Baptist's call?
And how can the words of Jesus about John and the law (as previously shown) not be in exact purpose?

It looks as if you are claiming that the translators have got everything wrong? Show me how.... please?

[tabibito]

Why not tell me that? And you can show me where the verses shown do not have continuity and contect?
...looking forward to that, if you can do it.

Luke 16:16 The law and the prophets were proclaimed until John, (in the time) since the kingdom of heaven is being proclaimed. (translations vary quite widely, but the sense is retained.)

Hebrews 8:6-13
6 ... He is also the mediator of a better covenant, which has been enacted on better promises. 7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion sought for a second.
13 When He said, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear.

Galatians 3:24 Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith. 25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.

That should do for a start

The Old Covenant was rendered obsolete, it was replaced with the New Covenant - which has its own laws, some of which are similar to the Old Testament law.

[rogue06]

Tell me........ and show me how I am wrong. Or is that beyond your debating grade?

I can repeat what others have already said. You are taking verses out of context, sticking them together and giving them your own unique "spin."


You might as well be combining Matthew 27:5b with Luke 10:37b

[Faber]

No foolin' -- one night, I woke up about 3 AM, and went out into the living room to watch some TV.
A TV "evangelist" was on (don't remember his name, he used to sit in a recliner smoking a cigar while "preaching") and he had just said "Peter was a jerk".
I turned the channel to find something else, but was really curious about his statement, so I switched back to see what he said.

Again, no foolin', he looked right into the camera, and said "some of you switched to another channel, but couldn't help yourselves, and you came back".

I turned off the TV and went back to bed.

Was that the bearded guy in a motorcycle jacket? He owned his own UHF television station somewhere in New England and was on all hours of the night. On other stations also. This was back in the 1970s - 1980s. What WAS his name?

[Faber]

I did some searching. That was Dr. Gene Scott, He died in 2005 at the age of 75. He owned four television stations. The FCC shut down three of them and he managed to sell the fourth before the FCC could shut that one down.

There is a lot about him on the internet, but I don't want to derail this thread.
gene scott.jpg