Did Christianity lose its way?

[eider]

The very first paragraph starts out talking about him:

Hebrews 1:1 In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, ² but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe. ³ The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven. ⁴ So he became as much superior to the angels as the name he has inherited is superior to theirs.

It talks about how the Son became human, was the perfect sacrifice and how his death and resurrection was the final sacrifice, eliminating the need for animal sacrifices and a priesthood. He fulfilled the Law. It's all there. If you did read it then you didn't pay attention. Or as I said previously you just can't understand it because to you the cross is just foolishness, nonsense because you are too self-centered to have an open mind and seek salvation.

In his letters Paul raises Jesus up to be the son of God, but with no reference to his words and actions in life. That's not talking about the Jesus that the boatman of Gennesaret knew nor the Jesus that I believe was a very real person..

By the way.......... didn't the congregations of Rome not already believe that Jesus was the majestic Son of God? Was this letter the first communication about this to those people?
No! And since Paul repeats these communications over and over it's just a shame that he didn't think to mention any of the wonderful things that Jesus did in life. Your previous defenses that Paul would not bother to tell the followers about the life of Jesus because they already knew it all in detail doesn't float......... Paul repeats the majesty of Jesus endlessly.

[eider]

And this, ladies and gentlemen, is an example of an "own goal."

I've never once forgotten to make mention of Paul's references to the last meal, he needed that to underpin the communion 'body and blood' ceremony.

So you and I both know that Paul ever mentioned the words and actions of Jesus.

[Mountain Man]

Certainly. All possible outcomes, but not necessarily which of them will be actualised. This god who knows the future in every precise detail, from the time of creation or before, was unknown to the Biblical authors.

I don't think it's possible for us to understand how a timeless being perceives and interacts with our temporal universe, but it seems to be a favorite tangent of atheists when they find themselves on the losing side of a debate.

[rogue06]

A name I'm not familiar with, but it seems unlikely to be relevant.

I'll assume (along with the inherent risk of such an action) that she is referring to this quote from the former U.S. Secretary of Defense under George W. Bush:

Reports that say that something hasn't happened are always interesting to me, because as we know, there are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns -- the ones we don't know we don't know.

[tabibito]

You can read the mind of your deity?

I fail to see how my comments could be so interpreted.

Like Donald Rumsfeld?

A name I'm not familiar with, but it seems unlikely to be relevant.

That does not really address my comments but no matter.

If there is an effable plan and an omniscient deity, then that deity must know all outcomes.

Certainly. All possible outcomes, but not necessarily which of them will be actualised. This god who knows the future in every precise detail, from the time of creation or before, was unknown to the Biblical authors.

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

Why so? Understanding what has been revealed is part of the deal. What hasn't been revealed can be searched out.

You can read the mind of your deity?

A matter that I am still searching out, but at this time it does not seem that God knows what is inherently unknowable.

Like Donald Rumsfeld?

That does not preclude the ability to calculate what will happen with precision, what is needed to avert a problem, or what is needed to promote a favourable outcome. In sum, God will only assert control in very rare circumstances.

That does not really address my comments but no matter.

If there is an effable plan and an omniscient deity, then that deity must know all outcomes.

[tabibito]

An interesting comment. Although your apparent ability to understand the mind of your deity is quite amusing..

Why so? Understanding what has been revealed is part of the deal. What hasn't been revealed can be searched out.

I suppose the question comes down to precisely what level of control you believe your deity possesses.

If the deity is believed to be omniscient then it knows how everything will work out.

Or is there an element of uncertainty and can human free will throw the proverbial spanner into the works?

A matter that I am still searching out, but at this time it does not seem that God knows what is inherently unknowable. That does not preclude the ability to calculate what will happen with precision, what is needed to avert a problem, or what is needed to promote a favourable outcome. In sum, God will only assert control in very rare circumstances.

[rogue06]

No I was just interested in this idea of being free from sin/no longer sinning.

It reminded me of a novel by James Hogg.

One attempt to change the subject because she's flailing gets called out so now on to another attempt.

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

You seem to be changing topics again. Is this a sign that you know you have lost the argument? We were talking about sin and forgiveness, not omniscience.

No I was just interested in this idea of being free from sin/no longer sinning.

It reminded me of a novel by James Hogg.

[Sparko]

I suppose the question comes down to precisely what level of control you believe your deity possesses.

If the deity is believed to be omniscient then it knows how everything will work out.

Or is there an element of uncertainty and can human free will throw the proverbial spanner into the works?

You seem to be changing topics again. Is this a sign that you know you have lost the argument? We were talking about sin and forgiveness, not omniscience.

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

God knows our hearts and our intentions. There is no hiding from him.

I suppose the question comes down to precisely what level of control you believe your deity possesses.

If the deity is believed to be omniscient then it knows how everything will work out.

Or is there an element of uncertainty and can human free will throw the proverbial spanner into the works?

[rogue06]

Does that mean that you can carry on sinning and still not be confined to the fiery pit?

One who actually read what they've been criticizing for decades wouldn't ask such a foolish question.

[Mountain Man]

Does that mean that you can carry on sinning and still not be confined to the fiery pit?

If by "carry on sinning", you mean wilful disobedience against God, the answer is no.

Scripture Verse: 1 John 3

No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him.

© Copyright Original Source

[Sparko]

Of course that would depend upon how one interpreted wilfully and how far the concept of free will actually extends when considering a belief in an omnipotent and omniscient creator being that has an ineffable plan.

God knows our hearts and our intentions. There is no hiding from him.

[Sparko]

Does that mean that you can carry on sinning and still not be confined to the fiery pit?

See Romans 6. I quoted it above.