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Does Islam preach forcible conversion?

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  • shunyadragon
    replied
    Originally posted by eider View Post
    NOT from Iran.
    Huh? Waitasec.......


    The future? Oh, for sure, Bahai will never become a Bahai World, the people of the world will see to that.
    But Bahai would like to, it even has criminal and civil legislation all ready to launch, with punishments extending to execution, even.
    All hypothetical..... won't ever actually happen.
    Hypothetical in the distant future is not a reasonable argument for anything that may happen hundreds of years ot thousand years in the future.


    Hang on! THey never even went there! NOT FROM IRAN!
    I know many Baha'is that escaped Iran, lost relatives executed in Iran, and are in prison in Iran. They even executed a young girl and US citizen for being a Baha'i


    We (here) don't much like the Iranian government, we here that many of the women (not Bahais) that have been demonstrating for freedom from dress codes have disappeared or been publicly executed. But as far as I know, no Bahais were executed last year.
    There are 300,000 Bahais in Iran, and as far as I know not one of the 45,000 boat people landing on our beaches to seek asylum was one of them.
    There is not much for anybody to like concerning the current government of Iran. The persecution of Baha'is and subjugation of women are only part of the human rights violations of Iran.

    You tell me that Bahai cannot leave Iran......... are you suggesting that Iran likes Bahais to stay in Iran? That all looks rather wobbly, no?
    Not whobly at all. Allowing Baha'is to leave Iran would encourage growth in world outside and would have more testimony of the persecution of Baha'is in Iran.
    Last edited by shunyadragon; 03-16-2023, 07:40 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • eider
    replied
    [QUOTE=shunyadragon;n1465989]

    NOT from Iran./QUOTE]
    Huh? Waitasec.......

    Since enrollment is voluntary, and being extremely hypothetical about the distant future, your assertion is false.
    The future? Oh, for sure, Bahai will never become a Bahai World, the people of the world will see to that.
    But Bahai would like to, it even has criminal and civil legislation all ready to launch, with punishments extending to execution, even.
    All hypothetical..... won't ever actually happen.

    They were accused of being spies, which is the modus operandi of the Iran government, No it is not safe for Baha'is to even try, even if a few are able to bribe there way. I sincerely believe that these Baha'is were set up to be arrested upon return from the beginning.
    Hang on! THey never even went there! NOT FROM IRAN!

    Your very gullible concerning the Iran government. To be a member of the Baha'i Faith is illegal in Iran. They step on when and where they choose/
    We (here) don't much like the Iranian government, we here that many of the women (not Bahais) that have been demonstrating for freedom from dress codes have disappeared or been publicly executed. But as far as I know, no Bahais were executed last year.
    There are 300,000 Bahais in Iran, and as far as I know not one of the 45,000 boat people landing on our beaches to seek asylum was one of them.

    You tell me that Bahai cannot leave Iran......... are you suggesting that Iran likes Bahais to stay in Iran? That all looks rather wobbly, no?

    Leave a comment:


  • shunyadragon
    replied
    Originally posted by eider View Post
    Are you claiming that Iranian Bahais do not and cannot visit the temple on Mount Carmel? They can you know.
    NOT from Iran.


    Sadly, once a Bahai World would be established, the Bahai World Government (UHJ) can decide to take notice of those entries in the Bayan.
    Since enrollment is voluntary, and being extremely hypothetical about the distant future, your assertion is false.


    Here you go........... some Iranian Bahais who traveled to Israel, they got in to some trouble but they were there, alright.

    Iran claims arrested Baha’i members were spying for Israel

    Officials says two of 14 detainees were trained at Baha’i center in Haifa, formed network in region; religious group says they were studying social causes
    They were accused of being spies, which is the modus operandi of the Iran government, No it is not safe for Baha'is to even try, even if a few are able to bribe there way. I sincerely believe that these Baha'is were set up to be arrested upon return from the beginning.

    Your very gullible concerning the Iran government. To be a member of the Baha'i Faith is illegal in Iran. They step on when and where they choose/
    Last edited by shunyadragon; 03-15-2023, 12:01 PM.

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  • eider
    replied
    Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post

    False. No reference provided. NO Baha'is are nor free to travel in and out of Iran. A possible exception is a few rich Baha'is may buy there way, which is costly to get in and out of Iran.
    Are you claiming that Iranian Bahais do not and cannot visit the temple on Mount Carmel? They can you know.

    Baha'is DID NOT! No references provided concerning the history, since enrollment in the Baha'i Faith is voluntary, and any future Baha'i World would be dependent on voluntary membership. Yes the Baha'i administrative order is for Baha'is only just like any other religion that have an elected administration. The rest is vague, mostly wrong. hypothetical, and not related to your original false assertion.
    Sadly, once a Bahai World would be established, the Bahai World Government (UHJ) can decide to take notice of those entries in the Bayan.


    Here you go........... some Iranian Bahais who traveled to Israel, they got in to some trouble but they were there, alright.

    Iran claims arrested Baha’i members were spying for Israel

    Officials says two of 14 detainees were trained at Baha’i center in Haifa, formed network in region; religious group says they were studying social causes



    Last edited by eider; 03-15-2023, 11:49 AM.

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  • shunyadragon
    replied
    Originally posted by eider View Post
    Most have blue/white collar employments, good homes and can travel.
    A typical example is that (wioth permission from Bahai) they visit Israel and Mount Carmel.
    False. No reference provided. NO Baha'is are nor free to travel in and out of Iran. A possible exception is a few rich Baha'is may buy there way, which is costly to get in and out of Iran.


    [/quote] The Babis certainly did....... but Bahai would end Islam, Shuny, because in a Bahai World the few remaining Muslims would have no voice, no vote, and if the writings of the Bayan suddenly got enacted by the UHJ they could be in a very bad way.
    [/QUOTE]

    Baha'is DID NOT! No references provided concerning the history, since enrollment in the Baha'i Faith is voluntary, and any future Baha'i World would be dependent on voluntary membership. Yes the Baha'i administrative order is for Baha'is only just like any other religion that have an elected administration. The rest is vague, mostly wrong. hypothetical, and not related to your original false assertion.
    Last edited by shunyadragon; 03-15-2023, 11:30 AM.

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  • eider
    replied
    Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post

    300,000 Bahais ARE NOT still living with good lifestyles and nice houses, and cars, and passports to come to see their friends in other countries.
    Most have blue/white collar employments, good homes and can travel.
    A typical example is that (wioth permission from Bahai) they visit Israel and Mount Carmel.

    Baha;is have never declared them selves enemies of Islam. Islam considers them enemies of Islam.
    The Babis certainly did....... but Bahai would end Islam, Shuny, because in a Bahai World the few remaining Muslims would have no voice, no vote, and if the writings of the Bayan suddenly got enacted by the UHJ they could be in a very bad way.

    Leave a comment:


  • tabibito
    replied
    Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post

    Nothing in the Bible limits the application of the Torah contents to the 'Holy Land.' Jesus made no such boundary.
    The Old Testament imposes the limits, not the New.

    Leave a comment:


  • Hypatia_Alexandria
    replied
    Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
    You decided it was safe to pirouette back to this thread, eh? I note that you're still studiously avoiding most of your mistakes here.
    I thought I would offer some information to another contributor.

    Leave a comment:


  • shunyadragon
    replied
    Originally posted by eider View Post

    Well now......... You've backed yourself up in to a corner, so let's see you wriggle out of it.

    You say:- Bahais suffer persecution, can be attacked by anybody, intensified persecution since the deposition of the Shah, and hiding in secrecy............ and you decided to use Wiki for your info.

    There are 300, 000 Bahais living in Iran. 30,000 Bahais live in Tehran. The Bahai Faith claims to supersede Islam.
    Bahai (and the early Bahais, the Babis) have existed in Persia/Iran since 1844, over one a half centuries...........
    In the early days of Bahai (the Babis) the fighting against Islam was intense....
    Bahais are considered to be the enemies of Islam by Muslims.

    Your thread is titled:-
    does-islam-preach-forcible-conversion

    Question:- How is it that 300,000 Bahais are still living in Iran, with good lifestyles and nice houses, and cars, and passports to come to see their friends in other countries?

    Job done...... !
    300,000 Bahais ARE NOT still living with good lifestyles and nice houses, and cars, and passports to come to see their friends in other countries.

    Baha;is have never declared them selves enemies of Islam. Islam considers them enemies of Islam.

    Leave a comment:


  • shunyadragon
    replied
    Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
    I'm not too sure that they actually believed it since they would be at a loss to quote anything that would support it.
    They claimed they did what they did following the teachings of Jesus throughout the past 2000 years. The parable of Jesus I cited could very well justify persecution, forced conversion and ethnic cleansing of those that do not believe as the establishment believes.

    Leave a comment:


  • shunyadragon
    replied
    Originally posted by tabibito View Post

    That he came to fulfil the law. That the law and the prophets were until John. And again - the Old Testament law applied strictly within the boundaries of the "Holy Land" - the extent of its jurisdiction was prescribed.
    Nothing in the Bible limits the application of the Torah contents to the 'Holy Land.' Jesus made no such boundary.

    Leave a comment:


  • One Bad Pig
    replied
    Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

    So as expected you pirouette away from addressing your mistakes.


    You decided it was safe to pirouette back to this thread, eh? I note that you're still studiously avoiding most of your mistakes here.

    Leave a comment:


  • tabibito
    replied
    Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post

    What did Jesus say about the Old Testament?
    That he came to fulfil the law. That the law and the prophets were until John. And again - the Old Testament law applied strictly within the boundaries of the "Holy Land" - the extent of its jurisdiction was prescribed.

    Leave a comment:


  • shunyadragon
    replied
    Originally posted by tabibito View Post

    Such commands can be said to exist, in the Old Testament. They do, however, apply strictly to people within the territory of Israel.
    What did Jesus say about the Old Testament?

    “Do not think that I came to abolish the Torah or the Prophets! I did not come to abolish, but to fulfill. Amen, I tell you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or serif shall ever pass away from the Torah until all things come to pass” (Matthew 5:17–18 TLV).
    Last edited by shunyadragon; 03-14-2023, 03:43 PM.

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  • tabibito
    replied
    Originally posted by Diogenes View Post
    Can you show in the Bible where there are commands to kill non-believers? As a note, if you're going to cite anything in the Old Testament, you'll need to show 1) it's concurrent with Rabbinic Tradition now or 2) it's still binding under the New Covenant.
    Such commands can be said to exist, in the Old Testament. They do, however, apply strictly to people within the territory of Israel.

    Leave a comment:

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