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How much of Christianity came from Jesus, and how much came from other sources?

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  • #91
    Originally posted by eider View Post
    Yes.
    What verses in Acts would you like to refer to?
    The reason I asked re the book of Acts was that I remember reading somewhere that you had questioned or given an opinion about Christianity and gentiles and Acts would be a very good and accurate description of both.

    Comment


    • #92
      Originally posted by Sparko View Post
      you just admitted that you choose what to believe and what to reject based on what you already believe rather than the evidence.




      You are finding excuses to reject information. and reading people who agree with what you already believe. That's called "Confirmation Bias" - look it up.


      And if they are truthful in what you can check, that means they are most likely truthful in the parts you can't check. That's how eye witnesses work, eider. The benefit of the doubt is given unless they can be shown to be deceitful. What reason would they have for lying? And starting a whole new religion? One that ended up with them being hunted down, not only by the jews but the romans? It sure wasn't for power or glory. All they had to do after Jesus was killed was slink back to the temple and pretend nothing ever happened and they could have been living normal happy lives as jews. Instead they gave up everything they had, went underground and lived on the run. That gives their writings a lot more credibility.




      Literacy was fairly high among jews in the ANE, because of studying scripture. Not to mention Jesus had followers like Matthew who was a tax collector, who absolutely had to be able to read and write.

      some reading on the matter:
      https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/...-judah-we-knew


      Luke 4:16-21 sort of scotches the idea that Jesus might have been illiterate.

      1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
      .
      ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
      Scripture before Tradition:
      but that won't prevent others from
      taking it upon themselves to deprive you
      of the right to call yourself Christian.

      ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

      Comment


      • #93
        Originally posted by tabibito View Post

        Luke 4:16-21 sort of scotches the idea that Jesus might have been illiterate.
        For any at least halfway reasonable person it would be.

        I'm always still in trouble again

        "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
        "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
        "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

        Comment


        • #94
          Originally posted by tabibito View Post
          The disciple testifying and writing is the beloved disciple. John is one of the "we," the beloved disciple is not.
          Magdalene, I reckon.

          Comment


          • #95
            Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

            He's admitted elsewhere that anything in the Bible that contradicts his arguments, he simply tosses out.

            https://theologyweb.com/campus/forum...04#post1450504
            You probably do this, but I don't. I didn't start with an argument but the wish to research.

            Comment


            • #96
              Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
              Oh, the iron E.
              In your mind it is.

              Comment


              • #97
                Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                you just admitted that you choose what to believe and what to reject based on what you already believe rather than the evidence.
                What about you? Do you reject any verses in the NT?
                I do!


                You are finding excuses to reject information. and reading people who agree with what you already believe. That's called "Confirmation Bias" - look it up.
                How about you?
                And NO, don't select people to read who can simply support what I have found.
                I don't have a pet HJ scholar to quote....... or can you find a post of mine that shows that I do?

                And if they are truthful in what you can check, that means they are most likely truthful in the parts you can't check. That's how eye witnesses work, eider.
                Now you can tell me, please name an eye witness with writings in the NT, apart from the author of G-Mark and Cephas?
                Let's have a look at youir name list.

                The benefit of the doubt is given unless they can be shown to be deceitful. What reason would they have for lying? And starting a whole new religion? One that ended up with them being hunted down, not only by the jews but the romans? It sure wasn't for power or glory. All they had to do after Jesus was killed was slink back to the temple and pretend nothing ever happened and they could have been living normal happy lives as jews. Instead they gave up everything they had, went underground and lived on the run. That gives their writings a lot more credibility.
                No...... YOU give the benefit of the doubt. Yes?
                I simply researched as much as I could, and discover what I could.

                Literacy was fairly high among jews in the ANE, because of studying scripture. Not to mention Jesus had followers like Matthew who was a tax collector, who absolutely had to be able to read and write.
                some reading on the matter:
                So you think that Galilean boatmen could read? Let's see your evidence for that.
                And you think that a taxc collector disciple was called Matthew? I think Levi was the publican disciple. Although:- If Matthew had been a Levite which is probable because such positions would not have been given to locals, then Levi might have been a nickname, as in Matthew the Levi!


                I don't even think that Jesus or his friends knew the word 'Christ' or 'Christian'
                Those names surfaced several years after Jesus, or so I have read:-

                'Christian' is coined
                A group of followers settled in the ancient Greek city of Antioch some 10-15 years after the crucifixion of Jesus. It was here that the term 'Christian' was first coined. It wasn’t a name the followers of Jesus had given themselves but rather it was a term applied to them by the people of Antioch. Historians debate whether or not it was originally used as a derogatory term.

                Last edited by eider; 01-24-2023, 12:34 AM.

                Comment


                • #98
                  Originally posted by Esther View Post

                  The reason I asked re the book of Acts was that I remember reading somewhere that you had questioned or given an opinion about Christianity and gentiles and Acts would be a very good and accurate description of both.
                  Would you like to show me?

                  Comment


                  • #99
                    Originally posted by tabibito View Post

                    Luke 4:16-21 sort of scotches the idea that Jesus might have been illiterate.
                    A synagogue in Nazareth? Archeology has never uncovered any such remnants. A tent was more likely, because the inhabitants of Nazareth almost certainly were tent dwellers and itinerant workers. They were probably there because of Antipas's local rebuilding project.

                    So that would scotch this verse, I think.

                    Luke {4:16} And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.

                    Comment


                    • [QUOTE=eider;n1451471]

                      And NO, don't select people to read who can simply support what I have found.
                      I don't have a pet HJ scholar to quote....... or can you find a post of mine that shows that I do?
                      "Historical Jesus scholar" will by definition reject a large body of evidence that doesn't fit the predetermined selective criteria for validity.


                      Now you can tell me, please name an eye witness with writings in the NT, apart from the author of G-Mark and Cephas?
                      Let's have a look at youir name list.
                      Never was a time that Mark was widely considered an eye-witness. The most common belief is that he studied under an eyewitness (Peter). James was, however, an eyewitness, and possibly Judas (Jude).


                      So you think that Galilean boatmen could read? Let's see your evidence for that.
                      Estimates guesses regarding the literacy levels in the region vary between 3 and 20%. Anything over 5% and literacy is no longer restricted to the intelligentsia.

                      I don't even think that Jesus or his friends knew the word 'Christ' or 'Christian'
                      Those names surfaced several years after Jesus, or so I have read:-

                      'Christian' is coined
                      A group of followers settled in the ancient Greek city of Antioch some 10-15 years after the crucifixion of Jesus. It was here that the term 'Christian' was first coined. It wasn’t a name the followers of Jesus had given themselves but rather it was a term applied to them by the people of Antioch. Historians debate whether or not it was originally used as a derogatory term.
                      The term, "Christian," was first coined in Antioch, which means that the term "Christ" was well known beforehand, otherwise the term "Christian," which is based on the term "Christ," could not have arisen. Even if your complaint were valid, the fact that messiah was translated to its Koine Greek equivalent has no significance whatever.
                      Last edited by tabibito; 01-24-2023, 01:06 AM.
                      1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
                      .
                      ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
                      Scripture before Tradition:
                      but that won't prevent others from
                      taking it upon themselves to deprive you
                      of the right to call yourself Christian.

                      ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

                      Comment


                      • [QUOTE=tabibito;n1451477]
                        Originally posted by eider View Post
                        "Historical Jesus scholar" will by definition reject a large body of evidence that doesn't fit the predetermined selective criteria for validity.
                        You can say that again.
                        Careful investigation sends a fairt b it in to the bin, I'm afraid.

                        Never was a time that Mark was widely considered an eye-witness.
                        Do you follow widely considered beliefs?
                        It seems clear to me that the author of Mark was a partial witness.


                        Estimates guesses regarding the literacy levels in the region vary between 3 and 20%. Anything over 5% and literacy is no longer restricted to the intelligentsia.
                        And....?


                        The term, "Christian," was first coined in Antioch, which means that the term "Christ" was well known beforehand, otherwise the term "Christian," which is based on the term "Christ," could not have arisen. Even if your complaint were valid, the fact that messiah was translated to its Koine Greek equivalent has no significance whatever.
                        Jesus never knew that word.
                        ..... so there!

                        Comment




                        • eider

                          Do you follow widely considered beliefs?
                          To me, whether beliefs are widely held is a matter of intense disinterest. Evidence suggests that on this issue, the widely held belief is probably correct.

                          [Ken Dark. The Archaeology of Nazareth in the Early First Century. published 2020]
                          In general, archaeological evidence for the early first-century settlement contains nothing inconsistent with the presentation of Nazareth in the Gospels. If Nazareth were a Jewish village functioning as a center for surrounding agricultural communities and associated with craft-working and quarrying, then this was exactly the sort of place where one might expect there to be a synagogue, whether as a building or public assembly, like that mentioned in the Gospels of Matthew and Mark, and where one might find a τέκτων (tekton), a craftsman, a term used for Jesus and Joseph in the same Gospels.


                          There is argument about whether early first century Nazareth would have had a synagogue, but the genuine HJ Scholar declares proven the claim that there wasn't.
                          Last edited by tabibito; 01-24-2023, 01:49 AM.
                          1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
                          .
                          ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
                          Scripture before Tradition:
                          but that won't prevent others from
                          taking it upon themselves to deprive you
                          of the right to call yourself Christian.

                          ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by tabibito View Post

                            eider



                            To me, whether beliefs are widely held is a matter of intense disinterest. Evidence suggests that on this issue, the widely held belief is probably correct.

                            [Ken Dark. The Archaeology of Nazareth in the Early First Century. published 2020]
                            In general, archaeological evidence for the early first-century settlement contains nothing inconsistent with the presentation of Nazareth in the Gospels. If Nazareth were a Jewish village functioning as a center for surrounding agricultural communities and associated with craft-working and quarrying, then this was exactly the sort of place where one might expect there to be a synagogue, whether as a building or public assembly, like that mentioned in the Gospels of Matthew and Mark, and where one might find a τέκτων (tekton), a craftsman, a term used for Jesus and Joseph in the same Gospels.


                            There is argument about whether early first century Nazareth would have had a synagogue, but the genuine HJ Scholar declares proven the claim that there wasn't.
                            As I understand it, a synagogue in Jewish custom was any place where formal meetings were held and did not necessarily refer to a specific structure.
                            Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                            But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                            Than a fool in the eyes of God


                            From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

                              As I understand it, a synagogue in Jewish custom was any place where formal meetings were held and did not necessarily refer to a specific structure.
                              There are claims that a synagogue did not need a building at all. I'm still trying to find something definitive.
                              1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
                              .
                              ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
                              Scripture before Tradition:
                              but that won't prevent others from
                              taking it upon themselves to deprive you
                              of the right to call yourself Christian.

                              ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by eider View Post

                                Magdalene, I reckon.
                                Again, if you think she's the author then why are you demanding that the Gospel contain a reference to the transfiguration -- something she was not present for?

                                I'm always still in trouble again

                                "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                                "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                                "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                                Comment

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