Originally posted by eider
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This forum is open discussion between atheists and all theists to defend and debate their views on religion or non-religion. Please respect that this is a Christian-owned forum and refrain from gratuitous blasphemy. VERY wide leeway is given in range of expression and allowable behavior as compared to other areas of the forum, and moderation is not overly involved unless necessary. Please keep this in mind. Atheists who wish to interact with theists in a way that does not seek to undermine theistic faith may participate in the World Religions Department. Non-debate question and answers and mild and less confrontational discussions can take place in General Theistics.
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How much of Christianity came from Jesus, and how much came from other sources?
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Originally posted by Sparko View Postyou just admitted that you choose what to believe and what to reject based on what you already believe rather than the evidence.
You are finding excuses to reject information. and reading people who agree with what you already believe. That's called "Confirmation Bias" - look it up.
And if they are truthful in what you can check, that means they are most likely truthful in the parts you can't check. That's how eye witnesses work, eider. The benefit of the doubt is given unless they can be shown to be deceitful. What reason would they have for lying? And starting a whole new religion? One that ended up with them being hunted down, not only by the jews but the romans? It sure wasn't for power or glory. All they had to do after Jesus was killed was slink back to the temple and pretend nothing ever happened and they could have been living normal happy lives as jews. Instead they gave up everything they had, went underground and lived on the run. That gives their writings a lot more credibility.
Literacy was fairly high among jews in the ANE, because of studying scripture. Not to mention Jesus had followers like Matthew who was a tax collector, who absolutely had to be able to read and write.
some reading on the matter:
https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/...-judah-we-knew
1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
.⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
Scripture before Tradition:
but that won't prevent others from
taking it upon themselves to deprive you
of the right to call yourself Christian.
⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
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Originally posted by tabibito View Post
Luke 4:16-21 sort of scotches the idea that Jesus might have been illiterate.
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
He's admitted elsewhere that anything in the Bible that contradicts his arguments, he simply tosses out.
https://theologyweb.com/campus/forum...04#post1450504
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Originally posted by Sparko View Postyou just admitted that you choose what to believe and what to reject based on what you already believe rather than the evidence.
I do!
You are finding excuses to reject information. and reading people who agree with what you already believe. That's called "Confirmation Bias" - look it up.
And NO, don't select people to read who can simply support what I have found.
I don't have a pet HJ scholar to quote....... or can you find a post of mine that shows that I do?
And if they are truthful in what you can check, that means they are most likely truthful in the parts you can't check. That's how eye witnesses work, eider.
Let's have a look at youir name list.
The benefit of the doubt is given unless they can be shown to be deceitful. What reason would they have for lying? And starting a whole new religion? One that ended up with them being hunted down, not only by the jews but the romans? It sure wasn't for power or glory. All they had to do after Jesus was killed was slink back to the temple and pretend nothing ever happened and they could have been living normal happy lives as jews. Instead they gave up everything they had, went underground and lived on the run. That gives their writings a lot more credibility.
I simply researched as much as I could, and discover what I could.
Literacy was fairly high among jews in the ANE, because of studying scripture. Not to mention Jesus had followers like Matthew who was a tax collector, who absolutely had to be able to read and write.
some reading on the matter:
And you think that a taxc collector disciple was called Matthew? I think Levi was the publican disciple. Although:- If Matthew had been a Levite which is probable because such positions would not have been given to locals, then Levi might have been a nickname, as in Matthew the Levi!
I don't even think that Jesus or his friends knew the word 'Christ' or 'Christian'
Those names surfaced several years after Jesus, or so I have read:-
'Christian' is coined
A group of followers settled in the ancient Greek city of Antioch some 10-15 years after the crucifixion of Jesus. It was here that the term 'Christian' was first coined. It wasn’t a name the followers of Jesus had given themselves but rather it was a term applied to them by the people of Antioch. Historians debate whether or not it was originally used as a derogatory term.
Last edited by eider; 01-24-2023, 12:34 AM.
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Originally posted by tabibito View Post
Luke 4:16-21 sort of scotches the idea that Jesus might have been illiterate.
So that would scotch this verse, I think.
Luke {4:16} And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.
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[QUOTE=eider;n1451471]
And NO, don't select people to read who can simply support what I have found.
I don't have a pet HJ scholar to quote....... or can you find a post of mine that shows that I do?
Now you can tell me, please name an eye witness with writings in the NT, apart from the author of G-Mark and Cephas?
Let's have a look at youir name list.
So you think that Galilean boatmen could read? Let's see your evidence for that.Estimatesguesses regarding the literacy levels in the region vary between 3 and 20%. Anything over 5% and literacy is no longer restricted to the intelligentsia.
I don't even think that Jesus or his friends knew the word 'Christ' or 'Christian'
Those names surfaced several years after Jesus, or so I have read:-
'Christian' is coined
A group of followers settled in the ancient Greek city of Antioch some 10-15 years after the crucifixion of Jesus. It was here that the term 'Christian' was first coined. It wasn’t a name the followers of Jesus had given themselves but rather it was a term applied to them by the people of Antioch. Historians debate whether or not it was originally used as a derogatory term.Last edited by tabibito; 01-24-2023, 01:06 AM.1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
.⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
Scripture before Tradition:
but that won't prevent others from
taking it upon themselves to deprive you
of the right to call yourself Christian.
⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
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[QUOTE=tabibito;n1451477]Originally posted by eider View Post"Historical Jesus scholar" will by definition reject a large body of evidence that doesn't fit the predetermined selective criteria for validity.
Careful investigation sends a fairt b it in to the bin, I'm afraid.
Never was a time that Mark was widely considered an eye-witness.
It seems clear to me that the author of Mark was a partial witness.
Estimatesguesses regarding the literacy levels in the region vary between 3 and 20%. Anything over 5% and literacy is no longer restricted to the intelligentsia.
The term, "Christian," was first coined in Antioch, which means that the term "Christ" was well known beforehand, otherwise the term "Christian," which is based on the term "Christ," could not have arisen. Even if your complaint were valid, the fact that messiah was translated to its Koine Greek equivalent has no significance whatever.
..... so there!
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eider
Do you follow widely considered beliefs?
[Ken Dark. The Archaeology of Nazareth in the Early First Century. published 2020]
In general, archaeological evidence for the early first-century settlement contains nothing inconsistent with the presentation of Nazareth in the Gospels. If Nazareth were a Jewish village functioning as a center for surrounding agricultural communities and associated with craft-working and quarrying, then this was exactly the sort of place where one might expect there to be a synagogue, whether as a building or public assembly, like that mentioned in the Gospels of Matthew and Mark, and where one might find a τέκτων (tekton), a craftsman, a term used for Jesus and Joseph in the same Gospels.
There is argument about whether early first century Nazareth would have had a synagogue, but the genuine HJ Scholar declares proven the claim that there wasn't.Last edited by tabibito; 01-24-2023, 01:49 AM.1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
.⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
Scripture before Tradition:
but that won't prevent others from
taking it upon themselves to deprive you
of the right to call yourself Christian.
⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
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Originally posted by tabibito View Post
eider
To me, whether beliefs are widely held is a matter of intense disinterest. Evidence suggests that on this issue, the widely held belief is probably correct.
[Ken Dark. The Archaeology of Nazareth in the Early First Century. published 2020]
In general, archaeological evidence for the early first-century settlement contains nothing inconsistent with the presentation of Nazareth in the Gospels. If Nazareth were a Jewish village functioning as a center for surrounding agricultural communities and associated with craft-working and quarrying, then this was exactly the sort of place where one might expect there to be a synagogue, whether as a building or public assembly, like that mentioned in the Gospels of Matthew and Mark, and where one might find a τέκτων (tekton), a craftsman, a term used for Jesus and Joseph in the same Gospels.
There is argument about whether early first century Nazareth would have had a synagogue, but the genuine HJ Scholar declares proven the claim that there wasn't.Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
As I understand it, a synagogue in Jewish custom was any place where formal meetings were held and did not necessarily refer to a specific structure.1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
.⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
Scripture before Tradition:
but that won't prevent others from
taking it upon themselves to deprive you
of the right to call yourself Christian.
⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
- 1 like
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Originally posted by eider View Post
Magdalene, I reckon.
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
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