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How much of Christianity came from Jesus, and how much came from other sources?

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  • #76
    Originally posted by eider View Post
    If you had walked up that mountain (possibly Horeb?) with Cephas, James, John and Jesus, and if you had seen Jesus go higher up where he was lit up in splendour and visited by by the ancient prophets, do you think that you might have mentioned such an experience?........... maybe?
    Only maybe.

    What? I reckon that the beloved disciple was Magdalene.
    The beloved disciple is termed "son" and "him."

    So why do you claim that John said he was present at the crucifixion?
    1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
    .
    ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
    Scripture before Tradition:
    but that won't prevent others from
    taking it upon themselves to deprive you
    of the right to call yourself Christian.

    ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

    Comment


    • #77
      Originally posted by tabibito View Post

      Only maybe.
      That would have been one of the most extraordinary experiences of your entire life, yet you reply to me 'only maybe'?

      The beloved disciple is termed "son" and "him."
      Which I do not believe. I thionk the beloved disciple was most likely Magdalene.

      So why do you claim that John said he was present at the crucifixion?
      Because it looks as if he is indirectly suggesting that he was that person.
      That's how most of the world has read those verses from the start......... have a look at DaVinvi's 'last Supper'.

      Comment


      • #78
        Originally posted by eider View Post
        That would have been one of the most extraordinary experiences of your entire life, yet you reply to me 'only maybe'?


        Which I do not believe. I thionk the beloved disciple was most likely Magdalene.


        Because it looks as if he is indirectly suggesting that he was that person.
        That's how most of the world has read those verses from the start......... have a look at DaVinvi's 'last Supper'.
        22 Jesus *said to him {(Peter)}, “If I want him to remain until I come, what is that to you? You follow Me!”
        23 Therefore this saying went out among the brethren that that disciple would not die; yet Jesus did not say to him that he would not die, but only, “If I want him to remain until I come, what is that to you?”
        24 This is the disciple who is testifying to these things and wrote these things, and we know that his testimony is true.

        The disciple testifying and writing is the beloved disciple. John is one of the "we," the beloved disciple is not.

        Of course, the story does circulate that John did not mean what he wrote, which is an admission that the story is not founded on John's record.



        1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
        .
        ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
        Scripture before Tradition:
        but that won't prevent others from
        taking it upon themselves to deprive you
        of the right to call yourself Christian.

        ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

        Comment


        • #79
          Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
          Looks like selective reading for the win!
          He's admitted elsewhere that anything in the Bible that contradicts his arguments, he simply tosses out.

          https://theologyweb.com/campus/forum...04#post1450504
          Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
          But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
          Than a fool in the eyes of God


          From "Fools Gold" by Petra

          Comment


          • #80
            Originally posted by eider View Post

            True.
            And they ignore those verses that do not suit their beliefs.
            Oh, the iron E.
            Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

            Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
            sigpic
            I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

            Comment


            • #81
              Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
              Oh, the iron E.
              It passed the iron E a couple of parsecs back.
              1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
              .
              ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
              Scripture before Tradition:
              but that won't prevent others from
              taking it upon themselves to deprive you
              of the right to call yourself Christian.

              ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

              Comment


              • #82
                Originally posted by eider View Post
                If you had walked up that mountain (possibly Horeb?) with Cephas, James, John and Jesus, and if you had seen Jesus go higher up where he was lit up in splendour and visited by by the ancient prophets, do you think that you might have mentioned such an experience?........... maybe?



                What? I reckon that the beloved disciple was Magdalene.
                If you assume the beloved disciple, the author of the Fourth Gospel, was Mary Magdalene then why do think she should write of the Transfiguration as something she experienced when she is never mentioned as having been there?

                Would I be correct in assuming you're a fan of the Da Vinci Code?


                I'm always still in trouble again

                "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                Comment


                • #83
                  Originally posted by eider View Post

                  True.
                  And they ignore those verses that do not suit their beliefs.
                  Oh a full course dinner of delicious unintended

                  IRON--E.jpg
                  Tastes like crispy bacon

                  The hilarious part is your being so obliviously lacking in self-awareness.

                  I'm always still in trouble again

                  "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                  "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                  "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

                    He's admitted elsewhere that anything in the Bible that contradicts his arguments, he simply tosses out.

                    https://theologyweb.com/campus/forum...04#post1450504
                    He'd make Jefferson and his pair of scissors look cautious by contrast.

                    I'm always still in trouble again

                    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                    "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                    "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Originally posted by eider View Post

                      That's how most of the world has read those verses from the start......... have a look at DaVinvi's 'last Supper'.
                      Anyone care to wager that eider probably thinks they all lined up on the same side of the table when they ate

                      That this is an accurate depiction?



                      I'm always still in trouble again

                      "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                      "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                      "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                        He'd make Jefferson and his pair of scissors look cautious by contrast.
                        One way to always be right is to simply ignore everything that proves one wrong. It's not a very good way, but it is a way.
                        Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                        But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                        Than a fool in the eyes of God


                        From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

                          One way to always be right is to simply ignore everything that proves one wrong. It's not a very good way, but it is a way.
                          That doesn't make you right, rather it only makes you willfully ignorant.

                          I'm always still in trouble again

                          "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                          "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                          "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                            That doesn't make you right, rather it only makes you willfully ignorant.
                            Well, yeah, I was being tongue-in-cheek.
                            Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                            But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                            Than a fool in the eyes of God


                            From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              Originally posted by tabibito View Post

                              It passed the iron E a couple of parsecs back.
                              We could go with the irony meter breakings

                              I'm always still in trouble again

                              "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                              "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                              "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Originally posted by eider View Post
                                No!.......... The more I studied, so the more I found, so the more my opinions shifted from 'Social Christian' to Deist.
                                you just admitted that you choose what to believe and what to reject based on what you already believe rather than the evidence.



                                The bible was written by various authors,
                                As an HJ researcher I don't study Paul's letters because they never wrote much about Jesus.
                                I don't take much notice of G-John because he wasn't there and that's easy to discover simply by reading his book.
                                etc. etc.
                                You are finding excuses to reject information. and reading people who agree with what you already believe. That's called "Confirmation Bias" - look it up.


                                Of course you can research a person's claims.
                                And if they are truthful in what you can check, that means they are most likely truthful in the parts you can't check. That's how eye witnesses work, eider. The benefit of the doubt is given unless they can be shown to be deceitful. What reason would they have for lying? And starting a whole new religion? One that ended up with them being hunted down, not only by the jews but the romans? It sure wasn't for power or glory. All they had to do after Jesus was killed was slink back to the temple and pretend nothing ever happened and they could have been living normal happy lives as jews. Instead they gave up everything they had, went underground and lived on the run. That gives their writings a lot more credibility.




                                I don't think that you believe that the boatmen of Gennesaret could read, which leaves Judas, Levi and maybe the Zealot? No.
                                How do you think people would take such notes in those days? No.
                                Literacy was fairly high among jews in the ANE, because of studying scripture. Not to mention Jesus had followers like Matthew who was a tax collector, who absolutely had to be able to read and write.

                                some reading on the matter:
                                https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/...-judah-we-knew



                                Last edited by Sparko; 01-23-2023, 11:05 AM.

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