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How much of Christianity came from Jesus, and how much came from other sources?

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  • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
    Here are a few screen captures of some of the images from Stratum II (the period in question) taken from one dig site in 2020 of your tent city
    Yep - definitely tents, as you can see from the state they are in. All packed up and ready to be transported.
    1Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω
    Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
    .
    If Palm Sunday really was a Sunday, Christ was crucified on a Thursday (which could be adduced from the gospels anyway).

    "The synoptic gospels claim that Jesus was crucified on the 15th day of Nisan and buried on the 14th day of Nisan:" Majority Consensus

    Comment


    • Originally posted by tabibito View Post

      Yep - definitely tents, as you can see from the state they are in. All packed up and ready to be transported.
      I figure eider will be along to tell us that the tents fossilized.

      I'm always still in trouble again

      "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
      "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
      "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

      Comment


      • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
        I figure eider will be along to tell us that the tents fossilized.
        If they were there long enough to give the place a name, they would have built permanent structures there. tents were used as temporary structures for nomadic people, not permanent residents.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
          I figure eider will be along to tell us that the tents fossilized.
          Ah - of course. The only possible explanation.
          1Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω
          Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
          .
          If Palm Sunday really was a Sunday, Christ was crucified on a Thursday (which could be adduced from the gospels anyway).

          "The synoptic gospels claim that Jesus was crucified on the 15th day of Nisan and buried on the 14th day of Nisan:" Majority Consensus

          Comment


          • Originally posted by tabibito View Post

            An interesting hypothesis - but you haven't given examples.

            Luke 4:16 states that Jesus had been brought up in Nazareth. It was a permanent settlement, with an estimated population of more than 400 people, not a temporary sojourn point for wandering herders and such. What kinds of proof would you expect to find?
            But who told Luke that? He never told us.....
            I expect that Jesus lived in Nazareth in childhood....... I wrote that.
            I expect that Nazareth might have accommodated 40-50 families, so about 3-400 folks, but not in houses!! They lived in tents.
            Tents were regular homes for peasants, especially itinerant workers.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by tabibito View Post

              Jesus stated that the familial relationship was not significant, and maybe that family members have no more claim than loyal followers or friends. You seem to be claiming that Jesus was saying something more than that.
              The Gospel of Mark:-
              Mark {3:31} There came then his brethren and his mother, and, standing without, sent unto him, calling him. {3:32} And the multitude sat about him, and they said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren without seek for thee. {3:33} And he answered them, saying, Who is my mother, or my brethren? {3:34} And he looked round about on them which sat about him, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren! {3:35} For whosoever shall do the will of God, the same is my brother, and my sister, and mother.

              .......... which you reduce to suit your own particular point of view, methinks.
              Salad Bar ahoy!

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Sparko View Post

                Way to miss the point that the people in Nazareth pointed out that Jesus' actual brothers were James and Judas (Jude).
                There were lots of James and maybe a few Judes and Judas's........ But Jesus showed exactly what he thought of his brothers, whereas he took the James BarZebedee with him up that mountain to that most amazing incident. Can you see which James really meant something to Jesus?

                Comment


                • Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                  The link which I provided (and you summarily dismissed) has that information, including supporting citations. Feel free to read it. I'm not going to spoon-feed you.
                  Oh the joy that your posts bring to me!

                  Such a professional level of research and reoporting.......biblearchaeologyreport.com certainly knows how to please its readers.
                  I particularly loved the picture that these experts chose as an accurate depiction of the little town that Jesus grew up in. All those lovely buildings, and a tower!
                  Let the members feast their eyes upon biblearchaeologyreport.com's idea of what Nazareth looked like.............. it's just that none of this was ever found, save the remains of a little homestead.
                  P1020939.JPG

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                    The fact that tents were made (Paul was, by trade, a tent-maker[1]) hardly supports your bizarre contention that Nazareth was composed of tents, now does it?

                    Learn to fail better.
                    When on a mountain and thinking of providing shelter for the prophets and Jesus, Cephas suggested erecting tents.
                    Erecting buildings on hilltops was going to be hard......... erecting tents was understood, practiced, economical and effective. Goat-hair tents.

                    1. I suppose that since Paul was making tents in Corinth this meant that city was entirely made of tents
                    Stick to Hill-tops like Nazareth, or the Canas........

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                      Here are a few screen captures of some of the images from Stratum II (the period in question) taken from one dig site in 2020 of your tent city
                      Stratums 1, 2 and 3 actually.

                      And Stratum 2 includes dates from 39bc (Roman control) through to the end of the first century. You included details from three Stratums, I think.

                      You are using fragments of property from a range of dates to prove that Nazareth was covered in houses......... Working peasants would have lived in goat-hair tents which were very good cover, allowed for easy relocation and were practical.

                      You've always thought of these communities as towns of buildings and the idea that peasants didn't all live in nice little houses will be irritating, I expect.
                      Now Capernaum......... all brick/stone houses! Why the difference? ....back to school, I think!

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by eider View Post

                        Oh the joy that your posts bring to me!

                        Such a professional level of research and reoporting.......biblearchaeologyreport.com certainly knows how to please its readers.
                        I particularly loved the picture that these experts chose as an accurate depiction of the little town that Jesus grew up in. All those lovely buildings, and a tower!
                        Let the members feast their eyes upon biblearchaeologyreport.com's idea of what Nazareth looked like.............. it's just that none of this was ever found, save the remains of a little homestead.
                        P1020939.JPG
                        Read - consider (3 seconds) - Google "nazareth tower"

                        https://www.nazarethvillage.com/abou...y/watchtowers/
                        In the left-hand image below, archaeologist Ross Voss takes a break next to the freshly excavated walls of an agricultural watchtower, which guarded an irrigated farm near Nazareth in the First Century AD. These towers – built by individual families to safeguard valuable plots of farmland – were once a common sight along the hills of ancient Galilee, Samaria and Judea. Many contained inner rooms used for shelter, storage and possible wine cellars. In the lower Galilee, most watchtowers appear to have been solid, used only for guarding crops and perhaps storing stones for building. Although many can still be found in Judea and Samaria, Galilean watchtowers are increasingly rare.


                        Of course, the associated picture is no more than the remains of a tower - how high it may have stood is perhaps open to conjecture.
                        Last edited by tabibito; 01-28-2023, 03:56 AM.
                        1Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω
                        Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
                        .
                        If Palm Sunday really was a Sunday, Christ was crucified on a Thursday (which could be adduced from the gospels anyway).

                        "The synoptic gospels claim that Jesus was crucified on the 15th day of Nisan and buried on the 14th day of Nisan:" Majority Consensus

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by eider View Post

                          When on a mountain and thinking of providing shelter for the prophets and Jesus, Cephas suggested erecting tents.
                          Erecting buildings on hilltops was going to be hard......... erecting tents was understood, practiced, economical and effective. Goat-hair tents.


                          Stick to Hill-tops like Nazareth, or the Canas........
                          What does that have to do with Nazareth?

                          Nazareth isn't atop a hill as you fantasize. It's located within a small basin that's surrounded by hills.

                          I'll leave you with this to ignore like you do everything else that exposes your flights of fancy you regularly substitute for reality.

                          The Archaeology of Nazareth in the Early First Century
                          Several sites in and very close to modern Nazareth have also produced evidence of quarrying, apparently for building stone, suggesting that quarrying was an important activity in the settlement’s otherwise agricultural Roman-period economy.




                          I'm always still in trouble again

                          "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                          "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                          "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by eider View Post

                            Oh the joy that your posts bring to me!

                            Such a professional level of research and reoporting.......biblearchaeologyreport.com certainly knows how to please its readers.
                            I particularly loved the picture that these experts chose as an accurate depiction of the little town that Jesus grew up in. All those lovely buildings, and a tower!
                            Let the members feast their eyes upon biblearchaeologyreport.com's idea of what Nazareth looked like.............. it's just that none of this was ever found, save the remains of a little homestead.
                            P1020939.JPG
                            In other words, you STILL haven't bothered to actually read any of it, but summarily dismissed it because you didn't like an artist's rendering. If this is how you did your HJ "research"....
                            Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. St. John Chrysostom

                            Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                            sigpic
                            I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by tabibito View Post
                              Of course, the associated picture is no more than the remains of a tower - how high it may have stood is perhaps open to conjecture.
                              ..... and somehow this was there in the early 1st century AD?

                              I don't think that there was ANYBODY or ANYTHING at Nazareth circa 2BC, and there certainly was nothing on the slopes of Nazareth Hill.
                              The early communities chose Nazareth for security which was on the top of the hill.

                              Although human habitation has been discovered to date back beyond bronze age I don't think anything was there circa 2BC. When the Roman Legions and a cohort came to the area at that time they expelled the bandit Judas BarEzekias, his followers and all others from Sepphoris, sold all the women and children in to slavery and executed all the men after they had taken the place apart. During this time the Romans needed to feed off the entire surrounding area and any habitations within a day's travel would have been foraged, pillaged, looted ...... ravaged and raped. The Roman Legate was furious about all the trouble that he had to clear up, and the cost, and any hilltop in the district would have been cleared out just as Sepphoris was.

                              And so when Antipas took power and decided to rebuild that 'city' then the workers would have started to return, and the working peasants of the North would have brought tents..... why build houses?

                              I know that you want your Nazareth to be a quaint little town with houses but it was a barren place which offered some security for working families.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by eider View Post

                                ..... and somehow this was there in the early 1st century AD?

                                I don't think that there was ANYBODY or ANYTHING at Nazareth circa 2BC, and there certainly was nothing on the slopes of Nazareth Hill.
                                The early communities chose Nazareth for security which was on the top of the hill.

                                Although human habitation has been discovered to date back beyond bronze age I don't think anything was there circa 2BC. When the Roman Legions and a cohort came to the area at that time they expelled the bandit Judas BarEzekias, his followers and all others from Sepphoris, sold all the women and children in to slavery and executed all the men after they had taken the place apart. During this time the Romans needed to feed off the entire surrounding area and any habitations within a day's travel would have been foraged, pillaged, looted ...... ravaged and raped. The Roman Legate was furious about all the trouble that he had to clear up, and the cost, and any hilltop in the district would have been cleared out just as Sepphoris was.

                                And so when Antipas took power and decided to rebuild that 'city' then the workers would have started to return, and the working peasants of the North would have brought tents..... why build houses?

                                I know that you want your Nazareth to be a quaint little town with houses but it was a barren place which offered some security for working families.
                                Archaeological findings notwithstanding, you know what was and was not in place in the early first century CE. I can see no reason to give credence to your narrative.
                                1Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω
                                Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
                                .
                                If Palm Sunday really was a Sunday, Christ was crucified on a Thursday (which could be adduced from the gospels anyway).

                                "The synoptic gospels claim that Jesus was crucified on the 15th day of Nisan and buried on the 14th day of Nisan:" Majority Consensus

                                Comment

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