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How much of Christianity came from Jesus, and how much came from other sources?

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  • How much of Christianity came from Jesus, and how much came from other sources?

    How much of Christianity came from Jesus, and how much came from other sources?

    I don't think that Jesus the Galilean Nagar (handworker) knew any languages other than Eastern Aramaic, never knew names like Christ or Peter, and didn't have any interest in founding anything for Gentiles to follow. I think he stood for the working classes that struggled on, all around him, and against the greed and hypocrisy of the Priesthood.

    So I reckon that a whole mass of 'outside' material was needed for the development of Christianity.


  • #2
    Originally posted by eider View Post
    How much of Christianity came from Jesus, and how much came from other sources?

    I don't think that Jesus the Galilean Nagar (handworker) knew any languages other than Eastern Aramaic, never knew names like Christ or Peter, and didn't have any interest in founding anything for Gentiles to follow. I think he stood for the working classes that struggled on, all around him, and against the greed and hypocrisy of the Priesthood.

    So I reckon that a whole mass of 'outside' material was needed for the development of Christianity.
    Will you accept Matt 24:14 , Mark 13:10 as authentic or authoritative? Of course not. Nor any other evidence that might be advanced from scripture.
    1Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω
    Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
    .
    If Palm Sunday really was a Sunday, Christ was crucified on a Thursday (which could be adduced from the gospels anyway).

    "The synoptic gospels claim that Jesus was crucified on the 15th day of Nisan and buried on the 14th day of Nisan:" Majority Consensus

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by eider View Post
      How much of Christianity came from Jesus, and how much came from other sources?

      I don't think that Jesus the Galilean Nagar (handworker) knew any languages other than Eastern Aramaic, never knew names like Christ or Peter, and didn't have any interest in founding anything for Gentiles to follow. I think he stood for the working classes that struggled on, all around him, and against the greed and hypocrisy of the Priesthood.

      So I reckon that a whole mass of 'outside' material was needed for the development of Christianity.
      And what do you base these beliefs of yours on, Eider?

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Sparko View Post

        And what do you base these beliefs of yours on, Eider?
        It has been pointed out before that Galilean Aramaic was a dialect of western Aramaic.
        1Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω
        Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
        .
        If Palm Sunday really was a Sunday, Christ was crucified on a Thursday (which could be adduced from the gospels anyway).

        "The synoptic gospels claim that Jesus was crucified on the 15th day of Nisan and buried on the 14th day of Nisan:" Majority Consensus

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by tabibito View Post

          It has been pointed out before that Galilean Aramaic was a dialect of western Aramaic.
          I was more concerned with where he got his idea that Jesus "never knew names like Christ or Peter, and didn't have any interest in founding anything for Gentiles to follow. I think he stood for the working classes that struggled on, all around him, and against the greed and hypocrisy of the Priesthood."


          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Sparko View Post

            And what do you base these beliefs of yours on, Eider?
            He just "knows" and you can't educate or argue with that.

            I'm always still in trouble again

            "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
            "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
            "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Sparko View Post

              And what do you base these beliefs of yours on, Eider?
              Looks like selective reading for the win!
              Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. St. John Chrysostom

              Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
              sigpic
              I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by tabibito View Post

                Will you accept Matt 24:14 , Mark 13:10 as authentic or authoritative?
                Ummm.........

                Of course not.


                Nor any other evidence that might be advanced from scripture.
                Nearly all of my evidence about Jesus comes from scripture. That and some accepted history.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Sparko View Post

                  And what do you base these beliefs of yours on, Eider?
                  Scripture, mostly the gospel of Mark, and some accepted history. In comparison to many Christian beliefs and ways.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by tabibito View Post

                    It has been pointed out before that Galilean Aramaic was a dialect of western Aramaic.
                    Which Galileans spoke, and clearly it was different as shown in the NT.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by eider View Post

                      Which Galileans spoke, and clearly it was different as shown in the NT.
                      So your claim is that Jesus did not speak eastern Aramaic as an additional dialect or language, but spoke it instead of the the local dialect of his hometown? Is that really a viable proposition?
                      1Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω
                      Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
                      .
                      If Palm Sunday really was a Sunday, Christ was crucified on a Thursday (which could be adduced from the gospels anyway).

                      "The synoptic gospels claim that Jesus was crucified on the 15th day of Nisan and buried on the 14th day of Nisan:" Majority Consensus

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by eider View Post

                        Scripture, mostly the gospel of Mark, and some accepted history. In comparison to many Christian beliefs and ways.
                        So OBP was correct? Selective reading? Because if you are using scripture as your source then your objections don't make any sense.

                        never knew names like Christ or Peter, and didn't have any interest in founding anything for Gentiles to follow. I think he stood for the working classes that struggled on, all around him, and against the greed and hypocrisy of the Priesthood.
                        While yes, he did stand against the greed/hypocrisy of the Priesthood and cared about the working class (he actually cared about everyone, including the poor who could not work), the rest of your statement is patently false according to the same scripture you claim is your source. He did call himself the the Messiah, even if he never used the word "Christ" - He called God his Father, as in a special relationship, not as "god is everyone's father" - claimed to be the Son of Man, a direct reference to the messiah in Daniel 7. He also claimed to forgive sins, to give eternal life and to return one day after his resurrection. The same source you are claiming also says he knew Peter and the other apostles.

                        So selective reading then?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Sparko View Post

                          So OBP was correct? Selective reading? Because if you are using scripture as your source then your objections don't make any sense.



                          While yes, he did stand against the greed/hypocrisy of the Priesthood and cared about the working class (he actually cared about everyone, including the poor who could not work), the rest of your statement is patently false according to the same scripture you claim is your source. He did call himself the the Messiah, even if he never used the word "Christ" - He called God his Father, as in a special relationship, not as "god is everyone's father" - claimed to be the Son of Man, a direct reference to the messiah in Daniel 7. He also claimed to forgive sins, to give eternal life and to return one day after his resurrection. The same source you are claiming also says he knew Peter and the other apostles.

                          So selective reading then?
                          Just a smidge.

                          I'm always still in trouble again

                          "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                          "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                          "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by tabibito View Post

                            So your claim is that Jesus did not speak eastern Aramaic as an additional dialect or language, but spoke it instead of the the local dialect of his hometown? Is that really a viable proposition?
                            Mark . {14:70} And he denied it again. And a little after, they that stood by said again to Peter, Surely thou art [one] of them: for thou art a Galilaean, and thy speech agreeth [thereto.

                            I seem to need to show you verses, from time to time.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Sparko View Post

                              So OBP was correct? Selective reading? Because if you are using scripture as your source then your objections don't make any sense.
                              Oh yes! Absolutely correct. Selective reading.......

                              Do you accept every verse written?

                              While yes, he did stand against the greed/hypocrisy of the Priesthood and cared about the working class (he actually cared about everyone, including the poor who could not work),
                              Yes
                              the rest of your statement is patently false according to the same scripture you claim is your source.
                              That's where we differ.
                              He did call himself the the Messiah, even if he never used the word "Christ" - He called God his Father, as in a special relationship, not as "god is everyone's father"
                              All Jews considered their God to be their father. Yes. 'Every Jew's Father.
                              - claimed to be the Son of Man, a direct reference to the messiah in Daniel 7.
                              Yes....... Son of Man, every Jew was a son of man, so are we we.
                              He also claimed to forgive sins, to give eternal life and to return one day after his resurrection.
                              You can forgive sins, so can your neighbour, and no jesus did not return.
                              The same source you are claiming also says he knew Peter and the other apostles.
                              What language the authors used was up to them, but Jesus named Simon 'Cephas'.

                              So selective reading then?
                              Yes... certainly. I've always heard and believed that it's the stuff you dump that produces best chances of truth (in what's left)

                              Do you selectively read the bible? Do you?

                              Comment

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