They are not Christians!

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

Yes.... I mentioned 'All Saints' day. But some Christians think that Halloween is wicked/evil, as explained in the OP.

Just for interest [and from The Stations of the Sun]

Christianity not only suppressed old Celtic celebrations, but replaced them with Christian festivals. If we look closely, it is not difficult to see that All Souls’ Day (November 2nd) is a continuation in a Christian form of the older Pagan practices of Samhain. This is a time when on the continent Catholic families will visit the family tomb, say prayers for the dead, light candles and even picnic at the graveside. Just as their Pagan ancestors did, they are communing with the dead.

As an additional point, surely no one really believes that all those "holy" wells in the UK originated with Christianity?

[rogue06]

Yes.... I mentioned 'All Saints' day. But some Christians think that Halloween is wicked/evil, as explained in the OP.

Several years back a friend of mine who lived in-town was griping about how since it was Halloween that some parents were complaining once again.

I thought he was talking about those who say it promotes witchcraft and Satanism, but then he let the other shoe drop...

It turns out it was some Wiccans who were complaining about how they are negatively stereotyped during Halloween.

[eider]

orthodox (small o) Christianity holds to certain core beliefs (such as the trinity, virgin birth, resurrection) that have been accepted for over 2000 years. In order to call yourself Christian you must hold to these core beliefs. There are many secondary beliefs that a lot of denominations fight over that make us look bad, but don't effect someone being a "true christian" or not (such as eschatology)

Every time...........!! As soon as I have written this post I will (yet again) look up 'eschatology' ..I just cannot hold on to its definition.

There have been creeds that delineate some of these core beliefs such as the Apostle's Creed:

Apostle's Creed

1. I believe in God, the Father almighty, creator of heaven and earth.
2. I believe in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord.
3. He was conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit and born of the Virgin Mary.
4. He suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died, and was buried.
5. He descended to the dead. On the third day he rose again.
6. He ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
7. He will come again to judge the living and the dead.
8. I believe in the Holy Spirit,
9. the holy catholic Church, the communion of saints,
10. the forgiveness of sins,
11. the resurrection of the body,
12. and life everlasting.
Amen.

I went to a Public school (in the UK expensive private schools) where all our services were 'High Church' and where every Sunday we recited that exact Creed.
I seem to remember that it was very close to the Catholic creed and this may have meant that Catholic families might send their boys there as well. Possibly.

Usually cults and pseudo-christians will deviate or reject one or more of these core beliefs, usually on the divinity of Jesus, or the Trinity. For example Jehovah Witnesses claim that there is no Trinity and that Jesus was the Archangel Michael before his incarnation. Mormons claim that God used to be the Adam on another God's planet and that one day all good mormons will get their own planet.

I have met and heard of other kinds of Unitarian Christians as well as JWs. Mormons used to door knock here 40 years ago, young men sent to the UK for 2 year experiences, they always looked immaculate and I don't doubt that door-knocking English streets added a lot of depth to their characters. But their beliefs I found to be most strange.

Here on Tweb we have a statement of faith that includes the Apostle's creed and a few others, like the Trinity and salvation. In order to use the tag "Christian" on tweb you would need to hold to these also. But that covers a lot of the main denominations of Christianity: Catholic, Baptist, Orthodox, Methodist, Presbyterian, etc.

https://theologyweb.com/campus/help#...missiontrinity

Question:- Lots of members are really clear that they are not Christians and obey your rules here, but do you ever/often get new members who cheat, and pretend to be Christians but are later shown not to be?

[eider]

If you really are interested in the subjects and as you live in Kent, UK, see if you can obtain the two following volumes by Ron Hutton from your local library.

The Stations of the Sun: A History of the Ritual Year Britain
The Pagan Religions of the British Isles: Their Nature and Legacy.

Thank you.......... those that I know of overlap with Christianity very much.

I wonder when the church introduced Mary as an important figure? I've heard that Roman Christians were still clinging to Roman Godesses?

[rogue06]

Question:- Lots of members are really clear that they are not Christians and obey your rules here, but do you ever/often get new members who cheat, and pretend to be Christians but are later shown not to be?

Hard to distinguish that from a deconversion from merely what someone posts unless they admit as much.

[eider]

I would like to think of the definition of "What is a Christian" as being a person who has repented of sin, trusted in Jesus as his Lord and Savior. But then again, we as Christians, by my definition and understanding of the term, don't hold a monopoly on the English language. Thus we often need to make a clarification, such as "born again Christian" or a person who has trusted in Jesus as his own personal savior, the emphasis on "personal".

John MacArthur wrote a controversial book in 2008, The Gospel According to Jesus. It stressed the concept of "Lord" in "Lord Jesus Christ", thus being branded with the term "Lordship Salvation". I personally have no problem at all with that, as understanding "sin" to be that which is in violation of the Lord's will and authority, and "repentance" including getting back under the Lord's authority.

As for the Apostles' Creed, it begins with "I believe in God..." but doesn't go much farther than that. Even the demons believe and shudder (James 2:19)

Thank you for that.
The Creed that we all had to chant at school was the same as T-Web's: I believe in God, the Father almighty, creator of heaven and earth.
High Church?

You mention 'sin', but I have always believed that Christianity got a wrong understanding of the word altogether, but that's another thread, really.

[eider]

Pagan? You don't come across as neo-pagan ...

Druid maybe?

Me? A person who believes that the guv'nor here is Mother Nature.

[tabibito]

All saints day originated in Rome, with the precursor being in honour of martyrs and held on May 13, instituted by Boniface in the seventh century. Gregory III changed the date to Nov 1 in 8th century, with the celebration restricted to Italy, but extended to include all saints - martyrs or not. Gregory IV extended the celebration to include the entire church in the 9th century. Halloween seems to be a blended celebration of All Saints and Samhain.

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

Thank you.......... those that I know of overlap with Christianity very much.

I wonder when the church introduced Mary as an important figure? I've heard that Roman Christians were still clinging to Roman Godesses?

She has much more ancient antecedents and it is not really surprising that within the early centuries of Christianity she was so popular in Egypt!

[Bill the Cat]

Thank you.......... those that I know of overlap with Christianity very much.

I wonder when the church introduced Mary as an important figure? I've heard that Roman Christians were still clinging to Roman Godesses?

The earliest mentions of what we call "Maryology" came about in the 3rd Century. She was highly respected in a few earlier writings, but the main stuff was a later insertion.

[Bill the Cat]

She has much more ancient antecedents and it is not really surprising that within the early centuries of Christianity she was so popular in Egypt!

No.

[rogue06]

While it is true that over the centuries many Christians have adopted a number of things from pagan religions (much of what we do to celebrate Christmas in the U.S. and Britain comes from old German traditions brought over in the 18th and 19th cent.), but more and more often scholarship reveals that much of what was thought to be borrowed from pagans were in fact things that pagans borrowed from Judeo-Christian tradition.

For example, I've previously brought up how the notion that Christians picking December 25 for Christmas has long been thought to be Christians subverting a pagan celebration but now we now it was pretty much the exact opposite.

In the 19th cent. everyone was sure that the Christians borrowed heavily from the pagans wrt to Christmas, even co-opting December 25th from pagan celebrations -- Saturnalia and Sol Invictus (Dies Natalis Solis Invicti). But as time went on and scholarship improved it became increasingly apparent that most of the "borrowing" was going the other way. It was, far more often than not, the pagans who were incorporating Christian ideas and practices.

The Saturnalia festival was traditionally celebrated sometime between December 17th and 23rd. Christmas is on December 25th. If you're going to co-opt a holiday you generally don't want them taking place on different days. It kind of destroys the whole purpose

The reason that December 25th was picked for Christ's birth was because the assumed date for His death (at least in the Western part of the Empire^[1]), since at least 200 AD, was March 25th^[2] -- which was calculated to have coincided with 14 Nisan. Back then it was assumed that truly great and righteous men lived a whole number of years, without fractions meaning that they died on the same day they were conceived on (see the Talmud for examples). In short, if He died on March 25th He therefore, or so it was thought, must have also been conceived on March 25th. Add 9 months to the date of conception and you arrive at December 25th as the date of birth.

Likewise, this demonstrates that Christians were celebrating Christ's birthday on December 25 before the festival for Sol Invictus (Dies Natalis Solis Invicti) on Dec. 25 was only established in the middle of the 3rd cent. by a Roman emperor who was not very friendly toward Christianity. Prior to that the traditional festival days varied throughout the Roman Empire and included August 8th and/or the 9th, possibly August 28th, and December 11th -- but never December 25th.

This clearly shows, that contrary to popular belief, that festival was actually later syncretized with Christmas rather than the other way around since Christians had figured that Christmas took place on that day several decades prior to the Romans appropriating the day.

The confusion arises over the fact that the earliest Christians weren't really into celebrating the birth of Christ (they were far more interested in His death)^[3] and Christmas celebrations really didn't get started in earnest until 379 or 380 at first in Constantinople and then started taking off in 386 after a sermon given by John Chrysostom.

IOW, December 25th as the date of Christ’s birth doesn't owe anything whatsoever to pagan influences but it arose entirely from the efforts of early Latin Christians to determine the historical date of Christ’s death.

Another fact to consider is that the first mention of a date for Christmas (c. 200) and the very earliest celebrations that we have records for (c. 250–300) come during a time when the persecuted Christian minority were not borrowing heavily from pagan traditions of such an obvious character but were taking great pains to distinguish themself from them. That practice didn't begin to change until after Constantine converted to Christianity.

IOW, December 25th as the date of Christ’s birth doesn't owe anything whatsoever to pagan influences but it arose entirely from the efforts of early Latin Christians to determine the historical date of Christ’s death.





1. In some parts of the East, especially in Asia Minor and in Egypt, they concluded that it was April 6th with the discrepancy being largely due to the difficulties of trying to translate an unfamiliar lunar calendar into a solar calendar.

2. See Irenaeus' (c.130 – c.202) Adversus Haereses for instance and Sextus Julius Africanus (c.160 – c.240) both of whom listed March 25th as the day of the conception of Jesus.

3. Origen of Alexandria (c. 165–264) actually mocked various Roman celebrations of birth anniversaries, dismissing them as a "pagan" practice.

[Cow Poke]

That's a question for God to answer, not me.

I'm guessing you are.

[tabibito]

That's a question for God to answer, not me.

Given the number of scriptural references to false brothers and the need to distinguish and avoid them or put them out of the assembly, that claim may be a bit questionable.

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

No.

Yes. A mother goddess figure was hardly unknown in Egypt;








Not overly dissimilar are they?