They are not Christians!

[eider]

John wrote after the others, and they had already covered that.

That excuse is heard over and over.
But using such an excuse and applying it to all we could shred so much of what was written.
I feel sure that some of the info that was included in G-John is true, but his personal claims and his contradictory stories.....bah!

[eider]

We have no good reason to believe the quote is incorrect. And, no, the rampant skepticism of ignorant poseurs likes you is not a good reason.

You wrote this to another.

The trouble with you is that you often haven't got anything of substance to show in your posts, instead you just chuck insults.
The above starts with 'We have no good reason....' which is the empty feeble substance....
...... followed by 'rampant skepticism of ignorant poseurs likes you' ...your usual insults which don't actually support a word that you say.

[eider]

Jesus' mission was to proclaim the kingdom of heaven to the Hebrews,.

No it wasn't. It was to build up enough support from the Northern Jews to go South and confront the hypocrisy and greed of the Priesthood and Temple.

Sadly he didn't get enough support in that.

[tabibito]

I feel sure that some of the info that was included in G-John is true, but his personal claims and his contradictory stories.....bah!

Such as?

[tabibito]

Over the years I have read some of the strangest ideas about Jesus, eg that he was really a blue collar worker etc etc
The very idea that as a Galilean Nagar and thus within the ;peasant classes is received with horror and/or aggression.
But he was within the peasant classes although in their upper levels, handworkers being regarded as very clever.

In short, as a carpenter (nagar), Jesus would today be considered a blue collar worker or equivalent.

But Jesus spoke Eastern Aramaic

Facts don't seem to make any impression on you. If Jesus spoke Eastern Aramaic, it would have been as a "second" language.

and did not know the Greek names and terms attributed to him and his friends later on.

That terms were translated is only to be expected. People usually write in the language that their intended audience is familiar with. There is little doubt that he did in fact interact with Greek speakers in the Decapolis if nowhere else. Any Greek speaker who accepted him as a messiah would have called him Christ. Many Hebrews were Greek speakers and did not know Hebrew or Aramaic, and at the time, Damascus was numbered among the cities of the Decapolis.

[eider]

Such as?

The timing of his Temple 'clearance'?
The fact that his clearance didn't cause any repercussions?
Raising the dead?
The whole timeline of that last week?

on and on...

[eider]

In short, as a carpenter (nagar), Jesus would today be considered a blue collar worker or equivalent.

There was NO middle class in early first century Palestine provinces.

Facts don't seem to make any impression on you. If Jesus spoke Eastern Aramaic, it would have been as a "second" language.

Wrong. Galileans spoke Galilean Aramaic. That was their language.
Pretending that Jesus used Gfreek names or uundderstood Greek is just rubbish.
The Southern Jews spoke Western Aramaic, the two could understand each other but ciould distinguish from each other, but Simon's given name was CEPHAS.

That terms were translated is only to be expected. People usually write in the language that their intended audience is familiar with. There is little doubt that he did in fact interact with Greek speakers in the Decapolif nowhere else. Any Greek speaker who accepted him as a messiah would have called him Christ. Many Hebrews were Greek speakers and did not know Hebrew or Aramaic, and at the time, Damascus was numbered among the cities of the Decapolis.

Gennesaret is nowhere near Damascus....... the people had different currency and speech.
If people usually write and talk in the language that they use, why do you use 'Christ', or the Aramaic Meshiah? etc?

No.

[tabibito]

The timing of his Temple 'clearance'?

Highly probable. Somebody didn't get it right.

The fact that his clearance didn't cause any repercussions?

Well, not any immediate repercussions anyway, and seemingly. If there were any, they weren't recorded in detail.

Raising the dead?

Not unprecedented, and not without subsequent example.

The whole timeline of that last week?

There doesn't seem to be any real discrepancy - a few hours difference in the time of execution being about the most significant.

[tabibito]

There was NO middle class in early first century Palestine provinces.

Which is what "would today be considered" indicates. There is no direct correlation of class structures.

Wrong. Galileans spoke Galilean Aramaic. That was their language.

And Galilean Aramaic is part of the Western Aramaic language group, as is the Jerusalem dialect. The dialects are mutually comprehensible, with enough differences to cause the occasional problem.

Pretending that Jesus used Gfreek names or uundderstood Greek is just rubbish.

A nice supposition on your part, but that is all it is. A resident of Nazareth could be expected to have had at least a middling fair understanding of Koine Greek. And no-one I know pretends that Jesus used Gre ... scratch that, it does happen.

The Southern Jews spoke Western Aramaic, the two could understand each other but could distinguish from each other, but Simon's given name was CEPHAS.

Yes, Simon was given the name Cephas by Jesus, and the name was later translated to Petros. Cephas (rock) is a masculine noun: translated to Koine Greek it would be the feminine noun Petra, but Peter being a male, the "os" masculine ending was used instead of the "a" feminine ending.
However, such words as "apostle" are not Hebrew or Aramaic ... but there is no equivalent word in Aramaic or Hebrew.

Gennesaret is nowhere near Damascus....... the people had different currency and speech.

That's what I was alluding to.

If people usually write and talk in the language that they use, why do you use 'Christ', or the Aramaic Meshiah? etc?

You may not have noticed, but both words are in the English dictionary - though messiah has taken a somewhat different meaning according to the Oxford dictionary. Loan words are a feature of most languages.

[Mountain Man]

You wrote this to another.

The trouble with you is that you often haven't got anything of substance to show in your posts, instead you just chuck insults.
The above starts with 'We have no good reason....' which is the empty feeble substance....
...... followed by 'rampant skepticism of ignorant poseurs likes you' ...your usual insults which don't actually support a word that you say.

Since you want to try and run with this torch after watching Hypatia_Alexandria stumble:

What good reason do we have to think that John 3:16 is not accurately quoting the words of Jesus?

And, no, the rampant skepticism of an ignorant poseur like you is not a good reason.

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

We have no good reason to believe the quote is incorrect.

Why?

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

Yes. Over the years I have read some of the strangest ideas about Jesus, eg that he was really a blue collar worker etc etc.....
The very idea that as a Galilean Nagar and thus within the ;peasant classes is received with horror and/or aggression.
But he was within the peasant classes although in their upper levels, handworkers being regarded as very clever.

But Jesus spoke Eastern Aramaic and did not know the Greek names and terms attributed to him and his friends later on.
Oh well.......

It seems that rogue06 might even consider Jesus of Nazareth to have been a polyglot!

[Mountain Man]

In short, as a carpenter (nagar), Jesus would today be considered a blue collar worker or equivalent.

Correct. In the Ancient Near East, manual laborers were considered to be among the lower caste.

[Mountain Man]

Why?

Because.

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

Because.

Ah so no valid answer then?