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Paul and the Judaizers

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  • Originally posted by tabibito View Post

    Two different authors consider different events and circumstances worthy of note. Not exactly an astounding discovery.
    Yet these accounts are believed by many to be those of "eye-witnesses".

    Was either author present when Jesus was born?

    "It ain't necessarily so
    The things that you're liable
    To read in the Bible
    It ain't necessarily so
    ."

    Sportin' Life
    Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
      It would appear that your self-accredited knowledge of matters philosophical was but a "mere veneer".
      Just following your example. When in Rome, after all.
      My Amazon Author page: https://www.amazon.com/-/e/B0719RS8BK

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
        Yet these accounts are believed by many to be those of "eye-witnesses".

        Was either author present when Jesus was born?
        Hardly. Luke states explicitly that he was not an eyewitness, and Mark is attributed to one of Peter's followers. If there are people who believe that these are eye witness accounts, that is unfortunate.

        Matthew might have been an eyewitness to Jesus' ministry, but there is no reason to believe he knew anything about Jesus prior to beginning of Jesus' ministry. If he had been a disciple of Jesus, he also knew Jesus' mother, who could have provided certain details.
        1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
        .
        ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
        Scripture before Tradition:
        but that won't prevent others from
        taking it upon themselves to deprive you
        of the right to call yourself Christian.

        ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Rational Gaze View Post
          Just following your example. When in Rome, after all.
          I do not affect to be a philosopher.
          "It ain't necessarily so
          The things that you're liable
          To read in the Bible
          It ain't necessarily so
          ."

          Sportin' Life
          Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

          Comment


          • Originally posted by tabibito View Post

            Hardly. Luke states explicitly that he was not an eyewitness, and Mark is attributed to one of Peter's followers. If there are people who believe that these are eye witness accounts, that is unfortunate.

            Matthew might have been an eyewitness to Jesus' ministry, but there is no reason to believe he knew anything about Jesus prior to beginning of Jesus' ministry. If he had been a disciple of Jesus, he also knew Jesus' mother, who could have provided certain details.
            So from what source did both writers get their birth narratives?

            Did each independently interview Mary and Joseph for their recollections?
            "It ain't necessarily so
            The things that you're liable
            To read in the Bible
            It ain't necessarily so
            ."

            Sportin' Life
            Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

              So from what source did both writers get their birth narratives?

              Did each independently interview Mary and Joseph for their recollections?
              Unknown, and not enough data to make a reasonable guess.
              1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
              .
              ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
              Scripture before Tradition:
              but that won't prevent others from
              taking it upon themselves to deprive you
              of the right to call yourself Christian.

              ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

              Comment


              • Originally posted by tabibito View Post

                Unknown, and not enough data to make a reasonable guess.
                So how did either come to write these narratives? And if so much is "Unknown" how can anyone be sure what is factually correct?
                "It ain't necessarily so
                The things that you're liable
                To read in the Bible
                It ain't necessarily so
                ."

                Sportin' Life
                Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
                  Luke tells us that they went from Nazareth so, if the Magi visit was some weeks/months after the birth why did the family stay in Bethlehem [according to Luke in somewhat straitened circumstances]?

                  Why did they not go home to Nazareth?

                  And from Schürer [Millar, Vermes, and Black]

                  every woman after childbirth had to offer a lamb as a burnt-offering and a dove as a sin-offering, or if she were without means, two doves as burnt-offering and sin-offering, Lev. 12:1-8; L k . 2:24


                  Where did that take place and when? Luke has it that they went to Jerusalem.
                  We don't have precise timelines just like we don't have them for anyone who lived back then.

                  And the Jews (yes an anachronism) regularly went up to Jerusalem for a variety of reasons, including for various festivals and personal reasons such as the one you mention. Hardly a deep mystery.

                  I'm always still in trouble again

                  "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                  "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                  "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                    We don't have precise timelines just like we don't have them for anyone who lived back then.

                    And the Jews (yes an anachronism) regularly went up to Jerusalem for a variety of reasons, including for various festivals and personal reasons such as the one you mention. Hardly a deep mystery.
                    According to tabibito, Bethlehem

                    was Joseph's hometown....Joseph had probably lived there from the time he was born.


                    So why is the figure we know as Jesus called Jesus of Nazareth and not Jesus of Bethlehem? Why did the family not live in "Joseph's hometown" ?

                    And when did this apparent flight to Egypt [as Matthew tells it] take place? Just after his birth or some time later?
                    "It ain't necessarily so
                    The things that you're liable
                    To read in the Bible
                    It ain't necessarily so
                    ."

                    Sportin' Life
                    Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
                      Oh certainly some academics fall off the edge but remember that history is not one of the hard sciences.
                      And that matters in what way exactly?

                      It's not like there aren't any historians who hold bizarre beliefs. Like those who claim that the Roman Empire is a medieval myth. Or all those promoting ancient astronauts (or Atlanteans) as responsible for everything from the pyramids to Stonehenge to the Nazca Lines. And then there's the Marxist notion of Historical Materialism, which has been dismissed as nothing but an unfalsifiable pseudoscience.

                      And they are hardly the only soft science beset by such nonsense. A library could be filled with various now dismissed notions from psychology and sociology that are categorized as nothing more than pseudoscience

                      I'm always still in trouble again

                      "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                      "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                      "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

                        It would appear that your self-accredited knowledge of matters philosophical was but a "mere veneer".
                        Says the exposed faux academic historian with delusions of grandeur

                        I'm always still in trouble again

                        "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                        "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                        "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

                          I do not affect to be a philosopher.
                          Just an historian -- and lets not forget your tryst with claiming to be an anthropologist as well.

                          I'm always still in trouble again

                          "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                          "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                          "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

                            According to tabibito, Bethlehem

                            was Joseph's hometown....Joseph had probably lived there from the time he was born.


                            So why is the figure we know as Jesus called Jesus of Nazareth and not Jesus of Bethlehem? Why did the family not live in "Joseph's hometown" ?

                            And when did this apparent flight to Egypt [as Matthew tells it] take place? Just after his birth or some time later?
                            The town where a person was brought up is called his hometown. The town where a person has made his residence for a number of years becomes his hometown. The place where a person lives and whose mother is a local is the person's hometown.

                            On their return from Egypt, the family intended to return to Israel but on learning that Judah was in Archelaus' territory turned aside to Nazareth. Perhaps you would like to venture a guess as to why they initially made their way to Judah instead of going directly to Nazareth?
                            1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
                            .
                            ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
                            Scripture before Tradition:
                            but that won't prevent others from
                            taking it upon themselves to deprive you
                            of the right to call yourself Christian.

                            ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post

                              Says the exposed faux academic historian with delusions of grandeur
                              Oh look RG has another fan.
                              "It ain't necessarily so
                              The things that you're liable
                              To read in the Bible
                              It ain't necessarily so
                              ."

                              Sportin' Life
                              Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                                Just an historian -- and lets not forget your tryst with claiming to be an anthropologist as well.
                                I have never claimed to have any expertise in anthropology.
                                "It ain't necessarily so
                                The things that you're liable
                                To read in the Bible
                                It ain't necessarily so
                                ."

                                Sportin' Life
                                Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                                Comment

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