Originally posted by tabibito
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Forum Rules: Here
This forum is open discussion between atheists and all theists to defend and debate their views on religion or non-religion. Please respect that this is a Christian-owned forum and refrain from gratuitous blasphemy. VERY wide leeway is given in range of expression and allowable behavior as compared to other areas of the forum, and moderation is not overly involved unless necessary. Please keep this in mind. Atheists who wish to interact with theists in a way that does not seek to undermine theistic faith may participate in the World Religions Department. Non-debate question and answers and mild and less confrontational discussions can take place in General Theistics.
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Paul and the Judaizers
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I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
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Originally posted by rogue06 View PostI'm curious to see if she attacks "majority consensus" here since she tries to rely on it so much.1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
.⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
Scripture before Tradition:
but that won't prevent others from
taking it upon themselves to deprive you
of the right to call yourself Christian.
⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
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Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View PostThere are no authentic letters from James or Peter or any other of the men who knew the Jew we call Jesus of Nazareth.
My Amazon Author page: https://www.amazon.com/-/e/B0719RS8BK
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Originally posted by Rational Gaze View PostFalse.
Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post...We do not even know if a man called Cephas/Peter actually existed.
Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View PostAs to your allegation concerning key eye witnesses within the four canonical gospel narratives we do not know if any of Jesus’ alleged disciples and followers mentioned in those actually existed.
The first was in an OP she started with the second in post #4
Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View PostCapernaum was not a city it was a small town/large village. Nor do we have any idea where this individual [assuming he existed] actually lived.
In reference to Peter
Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View PostI accept that someone wrote those letters and he called himself Paul and that he established various sects around parts of the eastern Roman empire, albeit at some distance from Jerusalem.
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
Comment
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Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View PostDo kindly explain how a Jew in the first century CE could have remained observant while no longer conforming to and observing Jewish law?
Those again are only Paul's idiosyncratic ideas and notions.
Again these are Paul's ideas. The Jews in the first century CE had [and today still have] their own means of expiation and those do not include vicarious human atonement [basically human sacrifice].
I recommend that you read Geza Vermes, Jesus in his Jewish Context, or indeed Hyam Maccoby's two works on Paul [the latter author is not very complimentary].
Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom
Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
- 1 like
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Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View PostWhy was Paul so "against the Judaizers" given that Jesus lived and died as an observant Jew?The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
- 1 like
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Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
Dabru Emet, which more than 170 Jewish scholars signed in 2000, reaffirmed
that Jews and Christians worship the same God and asserted that Nazism
was not a Christian phenomenon. The 2015 declaration on Christianity
made by Orthodox rabbis avowed “that the emergence of Christianity in
human history is neither an accident nor an error, but the willed divine outcome
and gift to the nations.”
Jewish scholars don't buy into the story that Nazism was a Christian phenomenon. Maybe this bit should be filed for use when some idiot (yet again) claims otherwise.
Polemical exchanges have characterized the relationship between Judaism
and Christianity since their beginnings, because adherents of both faiths
have defined themselves in opposition to the other. Scholars have challenged
the Jewish dogma that Christianity was a daughter religion born out
of a normative Judaism by persuasively demonstrating that the two faiths
simultaneously emerged from the crucible of political, cultural, and theological
ferment occurring in the first centuries of the Common Era.
A bit more clarification would have been beneficial.Carelessreading might make it seem that the author believes Judaism (rather than normative rabbinical Judaism) and Christianity arose concurrently. (Conclusion after further consideration, the author has not expressed it at all clearly.)
1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
.⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
Scripture before Tradition:
but that won't prevent others from
taking it upon themselves to deprive you
of the right to call yourself Christian.
⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
- 1 like
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Originally posted by tabibito View Post
Interesting article.
Dabru Emet, which more than 170 Jewish scholars signed in 2000, reaffirmed
that Jews and Christians worship the same God and asserted that Nazism
was not a Christian phenomenon. The 2015 declaration on Christianity
made by Orthodox rabbis avowed “that the emergence of Christianity in
human history is neither an accident nor an error, but the willed divine outcome
and gift to the nations.”
Jewish scholars don't buy into the story that Nazism was a Christian phenomenon. Maybe this bit should be filed for use when some idiot (yet again) claims otherwise.
Polemical exchanges have characterized the relationship between Judaism
and Christianity since their beginnings, because adherents of both faiths
have defined themselves in opposition to the other. Scholars have challenged
the Jewish dogma that Christianity was a daughter religion born out
of a normative Judaism by persuasively demonstrating that the two faiths
simultaneously emerged from the crucible of political, cultural, and theological
ferment occurring in the first centuries of the Common Era.
A bit more clarification would have been beneficial.Carelessreading might make it seem that the author believes Judaism (rather than normative rabbinical Judaism) and Christianity arose concurrently. (Conclusion after further consideration, the author has not expressed it at all clearly.)
P1) If , then I win.
P2)
C) I win.
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Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
Maccoby was a true follower of his namesakes, the Maccabees, defending the one God and attacking the incursions of Hellenistic religion on the purity of Judaism. Unfortunately, the picture he drew of Christianity as an invention of Paul that is pagan through and through is recognizable by few Christians. To be blunt, he misrepresented Christianity.
- 2 likes
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Originally posted by rogue06 View PostKeep in mind that she's on record as doubting whether Peter, Paul or any Apostle ever even existed.My Amazon Author page: https://www.amazon.com/-/e/B0719RS8BK
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Originally posted by Rational Gaze View PostAh. That explains the historical illiteracy, then,The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Diogenes View Post
If H_A is recommending someone who is persuaded by challenges that Christianity is not a daughter religion of Judaism and the two faiths emerged simultaneously, that would explain a lot of H_A problems."It ain't necessarily so
The things that you're liable
To read in the Bible
It ain't necessarily so."
Sportin' Life
Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin
Comment
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Originally posted by tabibito View Post
Interesting article.
Dabru Emet, which more than 170 Jewish scholars signed in 2000, reaffirmed
that Jews and Christians worship the same God and asserted that Nazism
was not a Christian phenomenon. The 2015 declaration on Christianity
made by Orthodox rabbis avowed “that the emergence of Christianity in
human history is neither an accident nor an error, but the willed divine outcome
and gift to the nations.”
Jewish scholars don't buy into the story that Nazism was a Christian phenomenon. Maybe this bit should be filed for use when some idiot (yet again) claims otherwise.
Polemical exchanges have characterized the relationship between Judaism
and Christianity since their beginnings, because adherents of both faiths
have defined themselves in opposition to the other. Scholars have challenged
the Jewish dogma that Christianity was a daughter religion born out
of a normative Judaism by persuasively demonstrating that the two faiths
simultaneously emerged from the crucible of political, cultural, and theological
ferment occurring in the first centuries of the Common Era.
A bit more clarification would have been beneficial.Carelessreading might make it seem that the author believes Judaism (rather than normative rabbinical Judaism) and Christianity arose concurrently. (Conclusion after further consideration, the author has not expressed it at all clearly.)"It ain't necessarily so
The things that you're liable
To read in the Bible
It ain't necessarily so."
Sportin' Life
Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin
Comment
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Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
I assume you have not actually read anything by Maccoby but are premising your remark on this one paper by Moore?
Are the Jewish Quarterly Review and the Journal of Ecumenical Studies of ill-repute?P1) If , then I win.
P2)
C) I win.
Comment
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Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
Correction. Some "Jewish scholars don't buy into the story that Nazism was a Christian phenomenon".1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
.⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
Scripture before Tradition:
but that won't prevent others from
taking it upon themselves to deprive you
of the right to call yourself Christian.
⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
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