Announcement

Collapse

Apologetics 301 Guidelines

If you think this is the area where you tell everyone you are sorry for eating their lunch out of the fridge, it probably isn't the place for you


This forum is open discussion between atheists and all theists to defend and debate their views on religion or non-religion. Please respect that this is a Christian-owned forum and refrain from gratuitous blasphemy. VERY wide leeway is given in range of expression and allowable behavior as compared to other areas of the forum, and moderation is not overly involved unless necessary. Please keep this in mind. Atheists who wish to interact with theists in a way that does not seek to undermine theistic faith may participate in the World Religions Department. Non-debate question and answers and mild and less confrontational discussions can take place in General Theistics.


Forum Rules: Here
See more
See less

Question About Numbers 15:32–36

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #31
    Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post

    One of my favorite passages is Prov. 26:4-5. I'm keeping it in mind as I interact with you.
    There are distinguished scholars who have found those contradictions. So you know better than them?!?

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post

      You may recall from previous discussions that I do not agree with this view. I believe the distinctions among "moral," "ceremonial," and "civil" are at best inferential, and more likely artificial.
      In other places, it's called cherry-picking.

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post

        That's the statement of 2 Cor. 5:21. Gal. 3:13 says He became a "curse" for us (believers).
        Those are Paul's words and ideas..

        I find it hard to believe that a Galilean Jewish charismatic believed he was to be a sacrifice for humankind.
        "It ain't necessarily so
        The things that you're liable
        To read in the Bible
        It ain't necessarily so
        ."

        Sportin' Life
        Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by little_monkey View Post

          So someone wrote in a book that killing is okay, and you're okay with that?!?
          I'm ok with them following the Law YHWH gave them. I accept without judgment that YHWH smote Uzzah for touching the Ark of the Covenant in a way that violated proper procedures. I accept without judgment that at times YHWH directly commanded genocide.
          Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

          Beige Federalist.

          Nationalist Christian.

          "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

          Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.

          Proud member of the this space left blank community.

          Would-be Grand Vizier of the Padishah Maxi-Super-Ultra-Hyper-Mega-MAGA King Trumpius Rex.

          Justice for Ashli Babbitt!

          Justice for Matthew Perna!

          Arrest Ray Epps and his Fed bosses!

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by little_monkey View Post

            So some authors wrote something, and that's supposed to be true?!?
            That emotional outburst seems rather unrelated to my post.
            Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

            Beige Federalist.

            Nationalist Christian.

            "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

            Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.

            Proud member of the this space left blank community.

            Would-be Grand Vizier of the Padishah Maxi-Super-Ultra-Hyper-Mega-MAGA King Trumpius Rex.

            Justice for Ashli Babbitt!

            Justice for Matthew Perna!

            Arrest Ray Epps and his Fed bosses!

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by little_monkey View Post

              There are distinguished scholars who have found those contradictions. So you know better than them?!?
              I might or I might not. But I'll note that I have not, so far, denied "contradictions." There's a good chance that none of the alleged contradictions they or you might cite would matter to me. That was kind of my point in the verses I cited. They would not constitute contradictory statements of fact, but they could readily be construed as giving contradictory instructions.
              Last edited by NorrinRadd; 08-15-2022, 03:39 AM.
              Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

              Beige Federalist.

              Nationalist Christian.

              "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

              Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.

              Proud member of the this space left blank community.

              Would-be Grand Vizier of the Padishah Maxi-Super-Ultra-Hyper-Mega-MAGA King Trumpius Rex.

              Justice for Ashli Babbitt!

              Justice for Matthew Perna!

              Arrest Ray Epps and his Fed bosses!

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post

                I might or I might not. But I'll note that I have not, so far, denied "contradictions." There's a good chance that none of the alleged contradictions they or you might cite would matter to me. That was kind of my point in the verses I cited. They would not constitute contradictory statements of fact, but they could readily be construed as giving contradictory instructions.
                It seems then that the answer is (quite rightly), "sometimes yes."
                1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
                .
                ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
                Scripture before Tradition:
                but that won't prevent others from
                taking it upon themselves to deprive you
                of the right to call yourself Christian.

                ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

                  Those are Paul's words and ideas..

                  I find it hard to believe that a Galilean Jewish charismatic believed he was to be a sacrifice for humankind.
                  Peter seemed to have the same idea -- 1 Pet. 2:24. Peter also described it in terms of "ransom," 1:18-19. Matthew (20:28) and Mark (10:45) put that same "ransom" language in the mouth of Jesus Himself. He may have also had that in mind in John 12:32, when He said that in His crucifixion, He would "draw all" to Himself. Elsewhere, John uses "propitiation" (1 Jn. 2:2; 4:10) to convey the same idea.

                  So it wasn't just Paul's idea, and at least three of the Evangelists seem to put at least an allusion to the idea in the mouth of Jesus Himself.
                  Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

                  Beige Federalist.

                  Nationalist Christian.

                  "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

                  Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.

                  Proud member of the this space left blank community.

                  Would-be Grand Vizier of the Padishah Maxi-Super-Ultra-Hyper-Mega-MAGA King Trumpius Rex.

                  Justice for Ashli Babbitt!

                  Justice for Matthew Perna!

                  Arrest Ray Epps and his Fed bosses!

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by little_monkey View Post

                    In other places, it's called cherry-picking.
                    You are ill-informed.


                    I'm always still in trouble again

                    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                    "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                    "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
                      Those are Paul's words and ideas..

                      I find it hard to believe that a Galilean Jewish charismatic believed he was to be a sacrifice for humankind.
                      That's okay. It's not like your opinion is highly valued.

                      I'm always still in trouble again

                      "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                      "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                      "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by little_monkey View Post

                        There are more than 100 contradictions in the bible. Hope you enjoy them when you find them...
                        Thanks for the heads up. I'll keep a look out.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post

                          Peter seemed to have the same idea -- 1 Pet. 2:24. Peter also described it in terms of "ransom," 1:18-19. Matthew (20:28) and Mark (10:45) put that same "ransom" language in the mouth of Jesus Himself. He may have also had that in mind in John 12:32, when He said that in His crucifixion, He would "draw all" to Himself. Elsewhere, John uses "propitiation" (1 Jn. 2:2; 4:10) to convey the same idea.

                          So it wasn't just Paul's idea, and at least three of the Evangelists seem to put at least an allusion to the idea in the mouth of Jesus Himself.
                          Perhaps that it's these seeming allusions that are the stumbling blocks. There is nothing that is clear cut and dry in my opinion. There is only the Spirit that resonates to the truth that underlies all the parables and teachings and esoteric sayings of Jesus and others: He who has ears to hear, let him hear.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                            You are ill-informed.
                            That is also your opinion, about which no one is [likewise] overly bothered.
                            "It ain't necessarily so
                            The things that you're liable
                            To read in the Bible
                            It ain't necessarily so
                            ."

                            Sportin' Life
                            Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post

                              Peter seemed to have the same idea -- 1 Pet. 2:24. Peter also described it in terms of "ransom," 1:18-19. Matthew (20:28) and Mark (10:45) put that same "ransom" language in the mouth of Jesus Himself. He may have also had that in mind in John 12:32, when He said that in His crucifixion, He would "draw all" to Himself. Elsewhere, John uses "propitiation" (1 Jn. 2:2; 4:10) to convey the same idea.

                              So it wasn't just Paul's idea, and at least three of the Evangelists seem to put at least an allusion to the idea in the mouth of Jesus Himself.
                              These are all later texts.

                              Or are you trying to claim a Jewish Galilean artisan fishermen was conversant with Greek ideas and the Greek language; and that this text [along with 1 Peter] are all dated to pre 67 CE? The "traditional" dating for Peter's death.

                              The fact remains that Paul is our earliest source.

                              All those other NT texts come several decades later.
                              "It ain't necessarily so
                              The things that you're liable
                              To read in the Bible
                              It ain't necessarily so
                              ."

                              Sportin' Life
                              Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

                                These are all later texts.

                                Or are you trying to claim a Jewish Galilean artisan fishermen was conversant with Greek ideas and the Greek language; and that this text [along with 1 Peter] are all dated to pre 67 CE? The "traditional" dating for Peter's death.

                                The fact remains that Paul is our earliest source.

                                All those other NT texts come several decades later.
                                Why couldn't a fisherman learn about Greek ideas? You seem to want us to believe that some crazy cat lady on the internet is a historian with expertise on every aspect of the ANE.

                                Comment

                                Related Threads

                                Collapse

                                Topics Statistics Last Post
                                Started by whag, Yesterday, 03:01 PM
                                14 responses
                                42 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post tabibito  
                                Started by whag, 03-17-2024, 04:55 PM
                                21 responses
                                129 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post Hypatia_Alexandria  
                                Started by whag, 03-14-2024, 06:04 PM
                                78 responses
                                411 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post tabibito  
                                Started by whag, 03-13-2024, 12:06 PM
                                45 responses
                                303 views
                                1 like
                                Last Post Hypatia_Alexandria  
                                Working...
                                X