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Question About Numbers 15:32–36

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  • #16
    Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
    Point of correction.

    Jesus fulfilled the ritual law but not the moral law.
    There are so many tangents on can go on here. I was just reading about the differences between the moral and the ceremonial law and it's got me interested. How did Jesus fulfill the ritual law and not the moral? And why was the moral not needed to be fulfilled?

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Machinist View Post

      There are so many tangents on can go on here. I was just reading about the differences between the moral and the ceremonial law and it's got me interested. How did Jesus fulfill the ritual law and not the moral? And why was the moral not needed to be fulfilled?
      Both questions worthy of their own threads.

      I'm always still in trouble again

      "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
      "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
      "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Machinist View Post

        Himself. It was His decision after all. It was His plan of redemption to offer Himself as the sacrifice.
        That does not make sense. If this was all part of his plan why did he give that cry of despair on the cross?

        And why was he [according to Luke] praying "Father, if you are willing, remove this cup from me, yet not my will but yours be done.”? Thus leading to an angel appearing to him that "gave him strength. And why did he continue to pray more earnestly "in his anguish" resulting in his sweat becoming "like great drops of blood falling down on the ground"?

        All that suggests a human being in terror and despair.

        Originally posted by Machinist View Post

        Yes. that is part of the equation. God actually turned His face from Jesus as He died on the cross. "Father why have you forsaken me?" In a sense, He became sin. I can't go into the nuances of that sense here, but suffice it to say, that in a sense (even in a symbolic sense), He became sin.
        Why? This was part of the plan. This [according to trinitarian doctrine] Triune deity sent part of itself [of the same ousia/essence] into the world in human form to suffer.

        And which part of Jesus suffered?

        Was Jesus was fully man when he was crucified? If so what happened to his divine self while he was on the cross? Did it suffer any pain? Did it die?
        "It ain't necessarily so
        The things that you're liable
        To read in the Bible
        It ain't necessarily so
        ."

        Sportin' Life
        Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

        Comment


        • #19
          That does not make sense. If this was all part of his plan why did he give that cry of despair on the cross?
          I can't make sense of it at the moment, but the first reference that comes to mind is the Jungian union of opposites.

          Another line of thinking might be that He created Jesus like a 2nd Adam. If God can create autonomous souls out of nothing, then I don't see any reason why He couldn't take part of his Nature and create another autonomous soul with it.




          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Machinist View Post
            God was the Law in OT times, and His Law was His Word, and He and the Law were One, etc. etc. So God is the Law and the Law is God. The Law was then made flesh through Jesus. Just kind of winging it here. There is a lot of symbolism there that actually makes a lot of sense when you dig further into it. I have only recently began reading the Bible, mainly the Psalms right now.
            There are more than 100 contradictions in the bible. Hope you enjoy them when you find them...

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post

              Not very crazy.

              The Ten Words were foundational to the entire Mosaic Covenant between I Am and Israel. Sabbath-keeping was the fourth of those Commandments (Ex. 20:1-17; Deut. 5:4-21). Execution was prescribed as the penalty for violation in Ex. 31:14-15 and Ex. 35:2-3. So the verdict couldn't have surprised anyone.
              So, someone picked up sticks on the day of the Sabbath, and consequently was executed, and you're okay with that? That would make Hitler a saint, since he ordered millions to die because he was called upon God to execute his will.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post

                Earlier in his Gospel, Matthew said that the whole reason for the name "Jesus" was that He would save people from their sins. (Matt. 1:21)

                Later in the same Gospel (Matt. 11:28-30) Jesus invites the weary and burdened to come to Him for rest, promising that His burden is light and easy to bear.

                Still later in the same Gospel (Matt. 22:36-38), He says that the greatest Commandment is to totally love God, and the second, which is like it or even the same as it is to "Love your neighbor as yourself"; He then says that all the rest of the Law and Prophets depend on those two (or one two-fold) Commandment(s). And still elsewhere (Matt. 7:12), He gives the so-called "Golden Rule," "Treat others as you wish others to treat you," and then explicitly says that single rule "fulfills" the Law and Prophets.

                Even without looking at what Jesus said in other Gospels, it appears those hard-line statements about the Law in ch. 5 are not the whole story.
                Regardless, what Jesus said about respecting the Law as outlined in the bible still stands, and accordingly, even in today's world. Why are you denying this?

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by little_monkey View Post

                  Regardless, what Jesus said about respecting the Law as outlined in the bible still stands, and accordingly, even in today's world. Why are you denying this?
                  Where did I "deny" it?

                  He took a very strict stance in that passage. Elsewhere in the same Gospel He presented a much more moderate view. In other Gospels He directly overturned parts of the Law. Elsewhere in what we believers consider equally inspired Scripture, the authors directly stated that the Obsolete Covenant and its Law are no longer in effect.
                  Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

                  Beige Federalist.

                  Nationalist Christian.

                  "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

                  Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.

                  Proud member of the this space left blank community.

                  Would-be Grand Vizier of the Padishah Maxi-Super-Ultra-Hyper-Mega-MAGA King Trumpius Rex.

                  Justice for Ashli Babbitt!

                  Justice for Matthew Perna!

                  Arrest Ray Epps and his Fed bosses!

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by little_monkey View Post

                    So, someone picked up sticks on the day of the Sabbath, and consequently was executed, and you're okay with that? That would make Hitler a saint, since he ordered millions to die because he was called upon God to execute his will.
                    I'm "ok" with them following the Law they were given.
                    Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

                    Beige Federalist.

                    Nationalist Christian.

                    "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

                    Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.

                    Proud member of the this space left blank community.

                    Would-be Grand Vizier of the Padishah Maxi-Super-Ultra-Hyper-Mega-MAGA King Trumpius Rex.

                    Justice for Ashli Babbitt!

                    Justice for Matthew Perna!

                    Arrest Ray Epps and his Fed bosses!

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by little_monkey View Post

                      There are more than 100 contradictions in the bible. Hope you enjoy them when you find them...
                      One of my favorite passages is Prov. 26:4-5. I'm keeping it in mind as I interact with you.
                      Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

                      Beige Federalist.

                      Nationalist Christian.

                      "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

                      Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.

                      Proud member of the this space left blank community.

                      Would-be Grand Vizier of the Padishah Maxi-Super-Ultra-Hyper-Mega-MAGA King Trumpius Rex.

                      Justice for Ashli Babbitt!

                      Justice for Matthew Perna!

                      Arrest Ray Epps and his Fed bosses!

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                        Point of correction.

                        Jesus fulfilled the ritual law but not the moral law.
                        You may recall from previous discussions that I do not agree with this view. I believe the distinctions among "moral," "ceremonial," and "civil" are at best inferential, and more likely artificial.
                        Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

                        Beige Federalist.

                        Nationalist Christian.

                        "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

                        Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.

                        Proud member of the this space left blank community.

                        Would-be Grand Vizier of the Padishah Maxi-Super-Ultra-Hyper-Mega-MAGA King Trumpius Rex.

                        Justice for Ashli Babbitt!

                        Justice for Matthew Perna!

                        Arrest Ray Epps and his Fed bosses!

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Machinist View Post

                          Good question. Again, I'm just winging things here. I think it all makes sense though, or at least that's my intuition.

                          He was pushed out of line, or He intentionally stepped outside of it, for the sake of becoming sin.
                          Jesus did not "step out of line." He carried our sins (1 Pet. 2:24), not His own (Heb. 4:15).
                          Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

                          Beige Federalist.

                          Nationalist Christian.

                          "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

                          Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.

                          Proud member of the this space left blank community.

                          Would-be Grand Vizier of the Padishah Maxi-Super-Ultra-Hyper-Mega-MAGA King Trumpius Rex.

                          Justice for Ashli Babbitt!

                          Justice for Matthew Perna!

                          Arrest Ray Epps and his Fed bosses!

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
                            By what or whom?

                            Jesus became "sin"? Really?
                            That's the statement of 2 Cor. 5:21. Gal. 3:13 says He became a "curse" for us (believers).
                            Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

                            Beige Federalist.

                            Nationalist Christian.

                            "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

                            Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.

                            Proud member of the this space left blank community.

                            Would-be Grand Vizier of the Padishah Maxi-Super-Ultra-Hyper-Mega-MAGA King Trumpius Rex.

                            Justice for Ashli Babbitt!

                            Justice for Matthew Perna!

                            Arrest Ray Epps and his Fed bosses!

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post

                              Where did I "deny" it?

                              He took a very strict stance in that passage. Elsewhere in the same Gospel He presented a much more moderate view. In other Gospels He directly overturned parts of the Law. Elsewhere in what we believers consider equally inspired Scripture, the authors directly stated that the Obsolete Covenant and its Law are no longer in effect.
                              So some authors wrote something, and that's supposed to be true?!?

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post

                                I'm "ok" with them following the Law they were given.
                                So someone wrote in a book that killing is okay, and you're okay with that?!?

                                Comment

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