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There is intelligent design.

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  • There is intelligent design.

    What is in debate, did everything have its origin with intelligent design. What to space-time-matter, non life to life, life to intelligence to intelligent design which we as humans think we do.
    . . . the Gospel of Christ, for it is [the] power of God to salvation to every [one] believing, . . . -- Romans 1:16.

    . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3, 4.

    Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1.

  • #2
    Originally posted by 37818 View Post
    What is in debate, did everything have its origin with intelligent design. What to space-time-matter, non life to life, life to intelligence to intelligent design which we as humans think we do.
    I believe God Created all of existence, but I acknowledge that this is a belief. The concept of Intelligent Design is awkward and anthropomorphic. God is a Creator, not an engineer, nor a designer.

    There is no objective evidence nor falsifiable hypothesis nor theory that could objectively demonstrate 'Intelligent Design.'

    The existence of a Source some call God(s) can neither be proved nor disproved, therefore the claim that there is an 'Intelligent Designer,' can neither be proved nor disproved. These matters remain a subject of one's belief and faith.
    Last edited by shunyadragon; 03-17-2014, 05:58 PM.
    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

    go with the flow the river knows . . .

    Frank

    I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
      God is a Creator, not an engineer, nor a designer.
      Can you explain to me how creation works with out some engineering or a substitute for same, and without design?
      Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Jedidiah View Post
        Can you explain to me how creation works with out some engineering or a substitute for same, and without design?
        Sure:

        1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

        3 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.

        6 And God said, “Let there be a vault between the waters to separate water from water.” 7 So God made the vault and separated the water under the vault from the water above it. And it was so. 8 God called the vault “sky.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the second day.

        9 And God said, “Let the water under the sky be gathered to one place, and let dry ground appear.” And it was so. 10 God called the dry ground “land,” and the gathered waters he called “seas.” And God saw that it was good.

        11 Then God said, “Let the land produce vegetation: seed-bearing plants and trees on the land that bear fruit with seed in it, according to their various kinds.” And it was so. 12 The land produced vegetation: plants bearing seed according to their kinds and trees bearing fruit with seed in it according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good. 13 And there was evening, and there was morning—the third day.

        14 And God said, “Let there be lights in the vault of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark sacred times, and days and years, 15 and let them be lights in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth.” And it was so. 16 God made two great lights—the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars. 17 God set them in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth, 18 to govern the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness. And God saw that it was good. 19 And there was evening, and there was morning—the fourth day.

        20 And God said, “Let the water teem with living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the vault of the sky.” 21 So God created the great creatures of the sea and every living thing with which the water teems and that moves about in it, according to their kinds, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. 22 God blessed them and said, “Be fruitful and increase in number and fill the water in the seas, and let the birds increase on the earth.” 23 And there was evening, and there was morning—the fifth day.

        24 And God said, “Let the land produce living creatures according to their kinds: the livestock, the creatures that move along the ground, and the wild animals, each according to its kind.” And it was so. 25 God made the wild animals according to their kinds, the livestock according to their kinds, and all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good.

        26 Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals,[a] and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”

        27 So God created mankind in his own image,
        in the image of God he created them;
        male and female he created them.
        28 God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground.”

        29 Then God said, “I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food. 30 And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds in the sky and all the creatures that move along the ground—everything that has the breath of life in it—I give every green plant for food.” And it was so.

        31 God saw all that he had made, and it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morning—the sixth day.
        All you need is faith, brother!

        NORM
        When the missionaries came to Africa they had the Bible and we had the land. They said 'Let us pray.' We closed our eyes. When we opened them we had the Bible and they had the land. - Bishop Desmond Tutu

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Jedidiah View Post
          Can you explain to me how creation works with out some engineering or a substitute for same, and without design?
          God is the Creator, not some human engineer nor designer. The Will of God is all that there is needed for Creation. Do you really thank you can explain Creation from the fallible human perspective?

          What could you possible mean by 'a substitute for the same?'
          Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
          Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
          But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

          go with the flow the river knows . . .

          Frank

          I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Jedidiah View Post
            Can you explain to me how creation works with out some engineering or a substitute for same, and without design?
            I cannot.

            But so what? Am I supposed to believe that whatever I cannot explain cannot have happened?

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
              I believe God Created all of existence, . . .
              God created His own existence? That is absurd. A god has to exist in order to create anything. Existence has to precede such a god. Therefore such a god is not needed to create any existence.
              . . . the Gospel of Christ, for it is [the] power of God to salvation to every [one] believing, . . . -- Romans 1:16.

              . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3, 4.

              Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by 37818 View Post
                God created His own existence? That is absurd. A god has to exist in order to create anything. Existence has to precede such a god. Therefore such a god is not needed to create any existence.
                Or existence and non-existence have no meaning when applied to God.
                I'm not here anymore.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Carrikature View Post
                  Or existence and non-existence have no meaning when applied to God.
                  Well that would be true if that god is a non existent entity.
                  . . . the Gospel of Christ, for it is [the] power of God to salvation to every [one] believing, . . . -- Romans 1:16.

                  . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3, 4.

                  Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by 37818 View Post
                    God created His own existence? That is absurd. A god has to exist in order to create anything. Existence has to precede such a god. Therefore such a god is not needed to create any existence.
                    Please be reasonable. When I refer to existence I am not referring to God.
                    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                    go with the flow the river knows . . .

                    Frank

                    I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Carrikature View Post
                      Or existence and non-existence have no meaning when applied to God.
                      This is a possibility. Somewhat Pantheistic, but nonetheless a possibility.
                      Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                      Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                      But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                      go with the flow the river knows . . .

                      Frank

                      I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                        God is the Creator, not some human engineer nor designer. The Will of God is all that there is needed for Creation. Do you really thank you can explain Creation from the fallible human perspective?

                        What could you possible mean by 'a substitute for the same?'
                        I did not suggest that any "human" understanding - engineering or design- was responsible for creation. I suspect you are aware of that. Creation was not some magic trick, it was the result of God's perfect knowledge and understanding.
                        Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Jedidiah View Post
                          I did not suggest that any "human" understanding - engineering or design- was responsible for creation. I suspect you are aware of that. Creation was not some magic trick, it was the result of God's perfect knowledge and understanding.
                          This is ok from a sound theist perspective, but the arguments using anthropomorphic human concepts of intelligent design and engineering, like Plantinga's are bogus, and unscientific. See Dover Trial.
                          Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                          Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                          But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                          go with the flow the river knows . . .

                          Frank

                          I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                            This is ok from a sound theist perspective, but the arguments using anthropomorphic human concepts of intelligent design and engineering, like Plantinga's are bogus, and unscientific. See Dover Trial.
                            I see, your response was not to what I wrote, but to something you added.
                            Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Jedidiah View Post
                              I see, your response was not to what I wrote, but to something you added.
                              I believe you had posted this.


                              Originally posted by Jedidiah
                              Can you explain to me how creation works with out some engineering or a substitute for same, and without design?
                              Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                              Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                              But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                              go with the flow the river knows . . .

                              Frank

                              I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                              Comment

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