Synoptics and John: Day of Crucifixion

[rogue06]

I am intrigued as to why this was created and for what purpose.

That should be patently obvious even to you.

As for the contention, it seems to be one of those attempts to desperately prove the gospels do not contradict one another concerning this event.

So why the façade of pretending not to understand the purpose. Can you just for once try to honestly engage in a conversation?

[rogue06]

But there is nothing in the Power Point that can be logically challenged, insofar as I can tell. The only possible recourse then is to make the author's identity and motive an issue. Doing so will at least help to prevent having to actually engage with the claims.

That has been the M.O. repeatedly displayed by the poster.

Here she is pretending not to understand the purpose while simultaneously making it clear she does understand as she sneers at it.

[tabibito]

That has been the M.O. repeatedly displayed by the poster.

Here she is pretending not to understand the purpose while simultaneously making it clear she does understand as she sneers at it.

Demonstrating that the Bible is a tad more consistent than people want it to be generally does not go down well, especially in theologician circles.

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

That should be patently obvious even to you.


So why the façade of pretending not to understand the purpose. Can you just for once try to honestly engage in a conversation?

If, as you appear to be suggesting, this power-point slide was created by our mutual friend, for what purpose was this slide [which presumably forms part of a longer power-point presentation] created?

Or is this just an example of his favourite hobby-horse?

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

Demonstrating that the Bible is a tad more consistent than people want it to be generally does not go down well, especially in theologician circles.

On this incident the gospels are not consistent. As any critical reading of those texts makes quite clear.

Nor do we have a precise date for this event as the exact year during Pilate's governorship in which the execution of Jesus took place is unknown; although it generally assumed to occurred in either 30 or 33 CE.

[tabibito]

On this incident the gospels are not consistent. As any critical reading of those texts makes quite clear.

Nor do we have a precise date for this event as the exact year during Pilate's governorship in which the execution of Jesus took place is unknown; although it generally assumed to occurred in either 30 or 33 CE.

A critical reading of the claims that the gospels conflict with regard to the day of crucifixion makes it patently obvious that the claims are ill-founded.

The simple fact that a one day discrepancy between the accounts would make the later timed crucifixion occur on a Sabbath should be enough to make anyone take stock and reassess the matter.

A scholarly assessment should start with the explicit statements and work from there to provide a basis for interpreting any ambiguous statements. The claim that John and the synoptics are in conflict begins with an arbitrarily assigned interpretation of an ambiguous statement.

But you have neither subjected the Biblical record, nor the commentaries to anything like a critical reading.

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

A critical reading of the claims that the gospels conflict with regard to the day of crucifixion makes it patently obvious that the claims are ill-founded.

The simple fact that a one day discrepancy between the accounts would make the later timed crucifixion occur on a Sabbath should be enough to make anyone take stock and reassess the matter.

The four gospels are not consistent regarding this incident and this is the opinion of various academics [as well as being clearly obvious to anyone who critically reads those gospel accounts].

[tabibito]

The four gospels are not consistent regarding this incident and this is the opinion of various academics [as well as being clearly obvious to anyone who critically reads those gospel accounts].

If it is so obvious, you should have no difficulty in pointing out what you imagine the flaw in my reasoning to be. But that would involve actually subjecting the argument to a critical evaluation, instead of engaging in unthinking regurgitation of what your favourite commentators say.

So far all you are doing is arguing from authority (and of course, engaging in ad hominems).

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

If it is so obvious, you should have no difficulty in pointing out what you imagine the flaw in my reasoning to be. But that would involve actually subjecting the argument to a critical evaluation, instead of engaging in unthinking regurgitation of what your favourite commentators say.

So far all you are doing is arguing from authority (and of course, engaging in ad hominems).

My emphasis.

Mark:

On the first day of Unleavened Bread, when the Passover lamb is sacrificed, his disciples said to him, “Where do you want us to go and make the preparations for you to eat the Passover?” ¹³ So he sent two of his disciples, saying to them, “Go into the city, and a man carrying a jar of water will meet you; follow him, ¹⁴ and wherever he enters, say to the owner of the house, ‘The Teacher asks: Where is my guest room where I may eat the Passover with my disciples?’ ¹⁵ He will show you a large room upstairs, furnished and ready. Make preparations for us there.” ¹⁶ So the disciples set out and went to the city and found everything as he had told them, and they prepared the Passover meal.

Matthew:

¹⁷ On the first day of Unleavened Bread the disciples came to Jesus, saying, “Where do you want us to make the preparations for you to eat the Passover?” ¹⁸ He said, “Go into the city to a certain man and say to him, ‘The Teacher says, My time is near; I will keep the Passover at your house with my disciples.’ ” ¹⁹ So the disciples did as Jesus had directed them, and they prepared the Passover meal.

Luke:

⁷ Then came the day of Unleavened Bread, on which the Passover lamb had to be sacrificed. ⁸ So Jesus^[b] sent Peter and John, saying, “Go and prepare the Passover meal for us that we may eat it.” ⁹ They asked him, “Where do you want us to make preparations for it?” ¹⁰ “Listen,” he said to them, “when you have entered the city, a man carrying a jar of water will meet you; follow him into the house he enters ¹¹ and say to the owner of the house, ‘The teacher asks you, “Where is the guest room, where I may eat the Passover with my disciples?” ’ ¹² He will show you a large room upstairs, already furnished. Make preparations for us there.” ¹³ So they went and found everything as he had told them, and they prepared the Passover meal.

John:

13 Now before the festival of the Passover, Jesus knew that his hour had come to depart from this world and go to the Father.

And:

²⁸ Then they took Jesus from Caiaphas to Pilate’s headquarters. It was early in the morning. They themselves did not enter the headquarters, so as to avoid ritual defilement and to be able to eat the Passover.

And

³¹ Since it was the day of Preparation, the Jews did not want the bodies left on the cross during the Sabbath, especially because that Sabbath was a day of great solemnity. So they asked Pilate to have the legs of the crucified men broken and the bodies removed.

It is generally accepted that John is more likely to be correct. However, as to the precise year in which all this took place - we have no idea.

[tabibito]

My emphasis.

Mark:

On the first day of Unleavened Bread, when the Passover lamb is sacrificed, his disciples said to him, “Where do you want us to go and make the preparations for you to eat the Passover?” ¹³ So he sent two of his disciples, saying to them, “Go into the city, and a man carrying a jar of water will meet you; follow him, ¹⁴ and wherever he enters, say to the owner of the house, ‘The Teacher asks: Where is my guest room where I may eat the Passover with my disciples?’ ¹⁵ He will show you a large room upstairs, furnished and ready. Make preparations for us there.” ¹⁶ So the disciples set out and went to the city and found everything as he had told them, and they prepared the Passover meal.

Matthew:

¹⁷ On the first day of Unleavened Bread the disciples came to Jesus, saying, “Where do you want us to make the preparations for you to eat the Passover?” ¹⁸ He said, “Go into the city to a certain man and say to him, ‘The Teacher says, My time is near; I will keep the Passover at your house with my disciples.’ ” ¹⁹ So the disciples did as Jesus had directed them, and they prepared the Passover meal.

Luke:

⁷ Then came the day of Unleavened Bread, on which the Passover lamb had to be sacrificed. ⁸ So Jesus^[b] sent Peter and John, saying, “Go and prepare the Passover meal for us that we may eat it.” ⁹ They asked him, “Where do you want us to make preparations for it?” ¹⁰ “Listen,” he said to them, “when you have entered the city, a man carrying a jar of water will meet you; follow him into the house he enters ¹¹ and say to the owner of the house, ‘The teacher asks you, “Where is the guest room, where I may eat the Passover with my disciples?” ’ ¹² He will show you a large room upstairs, already furnished. Make preparations for us there.” ¹³ So they went and found everything as he had told them, and they prepared the Passover meal.

John:

²⁸ Then they took Jesus from Caiaphas to Pilate’s headquarters. It was early in the morning. They themselves did not enter the headquarters, so as to avoid ritual defilement and to be able to eat the Passover.

It is generally accepted that John is more likely to be correct. However, as to the year in which all this took place - we have no idea.

And "whilst they were sacrificing the Passover" must occur on the fourteenth of Nisan, aka, the Jews' Day of Preparation. When Jesus is buried, it is still the Day of Preparation. The SYNOPTICS declare that the meal was eaten before the Jews made their sacrifice. Jesus died on the same day that he and the disciples ate the meal - during the daylight hours immediately following the night of that meal came the crucifixion. Hebrew calendar - same day.

[Mountain Man]

Instead of fretting so much over who made the power point (as if it mattered) perhaps you should deal with what is asserted by it.

This is known as "majoringon the minors".

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

And "whilst they were sacrificing the Passover" must occur on the fourteenth of Nisan, aka, the Jews' Day of Preparation. When Jesus is buried, it is still the Day of Preparation. The SYNOPTICS declare that the meal was eaten before the Jews made their sacrifice. Jesus died on the same day that he and the disciples ate the meal - during the daylight hours immediately following the night of that meal came the crucifixion. Hebrew calendar - same day.

I know this is your favourite hobby-horse and from previous exchanges it became self-evident that you were attempting to harmonise the chronologies of John and the Synoptics.

[tabibito]

I know this is your favourite hobby-horse and from previous exchanges it became self-evident that you were attempting to harmonise the chronologies of John and the Synoptics.

Back to ad hominems so soon.

Simple facts - the day that the Passover must be sacrificed is the fourteenth of Nisan, aka the day of Preparation. The lamb is sacrificed, the meal is eaten, Jesus is buried - all on the day that the lamb must be sacrificed. The only way that is possible is if the sacrifice is conducted immediately after day break (which is when Samaritan Jews still conduct the sacrifice.)

[rogue06]

If, as you appear to be suggesting, this power-point slide was created by our mutual friend, for what purpose was this slide [which presumably forms part of a longer power-point presentation] created?

Or is this just an example of his favourite hobby-horse?

I have neither suggested nor implied any such thing.

[tabibito]

I know this is your favourite hobby-horse and from previous exchanges it became self-evident that you were attempting to harmonise the chronologies of John and the Synoptics.

No attempt to harmonise is necessary - they do that well enough for themselves. The synoptic gospels show that Jesus and the disciples ate their Passover meal before the Jews made their sacrifice.