Send proof! of miracles...

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

I actually did for a while. I didn't think what I saw was demonic, but ghosts. I didn't think ghosts fit Christianity, and thus rejected my experiences as real for a while.

From that I assume that in this "old house" [ although here in Europe a 19th century property would not be considered unduly old,- we have some really old buildings!] you and your parents believe you had experiences with some sort of ghost.

I actually agree with that statement. That one person's evidence is not enough for many, but those who are interested will look at other accounts as well. The amount of credible accounts is too much for me to deny. Some people are only going to be convinced if it happens to them, but for some even that won't satisfy them.

I suspect some people would examine the situation in the cold clear light of day.

It took multiple visitations for Ebenezer Scrooge to change his mind that he was just seeing things.

Remember that was written as an allegory and also a ghost story. Dickens wrote several other ghostly tales.

[Cerebrum123]

From that I assume that in this "old house" [ although here in Europe a 19th century property would not be considered unduly old,- we have some really old buildings!] you and your parents believe you had experiences with some sort of ghost.

Not just me and my parents, others who have been in the house. Including those who were at minimum rather dismissive of the idea being possible. Then later in life coming across similar accounts from people all over the world.

Where I live a building is often considered "old" if it's around 100 years old or older.

I suspect some people would examine the situation in the cold clear light of day.

Many if not most the events happened in the daytime. We did investigations of the entire house during some of these incidents. Look, just because we believe there was a demon/ghost at the house doesn't mean we believed everything bad that happened there was caused by it.

Remember that was written as an allegory and also a ghost story. Dickens wrote several other ghostly tales.

I know he is, but I also know people like him. Characters are often based on a person, or a mix of traits of several people that an author knows.

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

Not just me and my parents, others who have been in the house. Including those who were at minimum rather dismissive of the idea being possible. Then later in life coming across similar accounts from people all over the world.

All these people lived in this same property at different periods in time?

Where I live a building is often considered "old" if it's around 100 years old or older.

Being "around 100 years old or older". How much older?

Here in Europe we have buildings hundreds of years old and some remains of buildings and other edifices going back thousands of years. Anyway my initial comment was intended as a jocular remark

Many if not most the events happened in the daytime.

What were these events?.

I know he is, but I also know people like him.

I shall forgive your inadvertent implication that Dickens was an allegory.

Characters are often based on a person, or a mix of traits of several people that an author knows.

I would suggest that Ebenezer Scrooge was a caricature of the views and attitudes of many within Dickens' society. Likewise Dickens' character of Mrs Jellyby in Bleak House.

[Cerebrum123]

All these people lived in this same property at different periods in time?

Some didn't live there, but were visitors. Another person just rented a room there.

Being "around 100 years old or older". How much older?

Here in Europe we have buildings hundreds of years old and some remains of buildings and other edifices going back thousands of years. Anyway my initial comment was intended as a jocular remark

Yeah, I'm just very used to much younger buildings as houses.

What were these events?.

A loud crash coming from the second floor as if someone had taken a heavy jar or vase and slammed it as hard as they possibly could into the floor right above us. We went up stairs to find nothing broken. We checked all the windows and anything made of similar materials in and around the house, no TV or radio could have made the sound either. At first I didn't think much of this event, but I was later told stuff like that and more had been happening to others who lived there or visited us.

I heard the door bell ring, so I ran to get the door. I opened the door to see a kid* around 5 years old wearing a rain jacket and rain boots on a perfectly sunny day. He also had glowing red irises. I could feel the malice emanating from it, nothing but pure hate. Terrified I slammed the door and ran into another room. It had beaten me to the other room, and without crossing my field of vision or appearing to have moved at all, and without opening the doors** blocking the way. I ran back to the front door which was still closed, because it didn't need to open it to chase me. I turned around to see it at the end of the hall, still looking like it hadn't moved any part of its body. I froze in fear. Running is useless against something that can move like that. It finally started to move in a way that was perceivable. It started taking slow jerky steps towards me. I feel a tap on my right shoulder and look up. My dad had just come down the stairs, I looked where it was, and it was gone. I didn't tell him what had just happened because I thought he would think I was crazy.

I was later told about locked doors being opened and closed by themselves. IIRC they were still locked when investigated.

I shall forgive your inadvertent implication that Dickens was an allegory.

I noticed it could be taken that way, but I thought context would be enough for it to not be seriously considered.

I would suggest that Ebenezer Scrooge was a caricature of the views and attitudes of many within Dickens' society. Likewise Dickens' character of Mrs Jellyby in Bleak House.

I'd agree that he is partially a caricature of certain people. The thing is I've known real people with that exact attitude.

*I know some will take me as less credible, but for full disclosure I was about 4 years old at the time myself.

**The front door I slammed, and a really heavy sliding door that separated the foyer from the neighboring room.

[rogue06]

I shall forgive your inadvertent implication that Dickens was an allegory.

I would suggest that Ebenezer Scrooge was a caricature of the views and attitudes of many within Dickens' society. Likewise Dickens' character of Mrs Jellyby in Bleak House.

One of my English Literature professors argued that Scrooge was largely based on Dicken's father.

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

Some didn't live there, but were visitors. Another person just rented a room there.



Yeah, I'm just very used to much younger buildings as houses.



A loud crash coming from the second floor as if someone had taken a heavy jar or vase and slammed it as hard as they possibly could into the floor right above us. We went up stairs to find nothing broken. We checked all the windows and anything made of similar materials in and around the house, no TV or radio could have made the sound either. At first I didn't think much of this event, but I was later told stuff like that and more had been happening to others who lived there or visited us.

I heard the door bell ring, so I ran to get the door. I opened the door to see a kid* around 5 years old wearing a rain jacket and rain boots on a perfectly sunny day. He also had glowing red irises. I could feel the malice emanating from it, nothing but pure hate. Terrified I slammed the door and ran into another room. It had beaten me to the other room, and without crossing my field of vision or appearing to have moved at all, and without opening the doors** blocking the way. I ran back to the front door which was still closed, because it didn't need to open it to chase me. I turned around to see it at the end of the hall, still looking like it hadn't moved any part of its body. I froze in fear. Running is useless against something that can move like that. It finally started to move in a way that was perceivable. It started taking slow jerky steps towards me. I feel a tap on my right shoulder and look up. My dad had just come down the stairs, I looked where it was, and it was gone. I didn't tell him what had just happened because I thought he would think I was crazy.

I was later told about locked doors being opened and closed by themselves. IIRC they were still locked when investigated.



I noticed it could be taken that way, but I thought context would be enough for it to not be seriously considered.



I'd agree that he is partially a caricature of certain people. The thing is I've known real people with that exact attitude.

*I know some will take me as less credible, but for full disclosure I was about 4 years old at the time myself.

**The front door I slammed, and a really heavy sliding door that separated the foyer from the neighboring room.

Concerning this "really heavy sliding door", how did you manage to open/close it if you were such a young child [four years old]?

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

One of my English Literature professors argued that Scrooge was largely based on Dicken's father.

It would appear your professor was somewhat confused. John Dickens was sent to the Marshalsea [twice] for debt. His wife and some of the younger children joined him there. I understand that Mr Micawber was based on John; with his faithful wife and her plaintive insistence that she would never leave her dear Mr Micawber, as well as his ever growing family.

[Cerebrum123]

Concerning this "really heavy sliding door", how did you manage to open/close it if you were such a young child [four years old]?

I didn't*, I ran through a different entrance. At the door I did a 180 degree turn, ran to the next room, took a left, ran through it, and then took another left.

*I could at the time, but it wasn't easy. I left the sliding doors alone for the most part.

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

I didn't*, I ran through a different entrance. At the door I did a 180 degree turn, ran to the next room, took a left, ran through it, and then took another left.

*I could at the time, but it wasn't easy. I left the sliding doors alone for the most part.

With all due respect to your memory of this event you do realise that it has little credence beyond the imagination of a very small child. We also know that memory is not always reliable, particularly as time passes. From what you have written re your reference to Ghostbusters, and given that the movie came out in 1984, I suspect that you are at least in your mid forties, you are therefore recalling an event you believe occurred well over forty years ago.

[rogue06]

It would appear your professor was somewhat confused. John Dickens was sent to the Marshalsea [twice] for debt. His wife and some of the younger children joined him there. I understand that Mr Micawber was based on John; with his faithful wife and her plaintive insistence that she would never leave her dear Mr Micawber, as well as his ever growing family.

I'm sure I'm not doing justice to his theory, particularly after going on 50 years, but it was based on exactly that and how the father was incredibly miserly trying to save enough to keep from being locked up.

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

I'm sure I'm not doing justice to his theory, particularly after going on 50 years, but it was based on exactly that and how the father was incredibly miserly trying to save enough to keep from being locked up.

John Dickens' income from the navy does not appear to have sufficed for his own or his large family's needs. Even the Wiki article [your favourite reference work] acknowledges that about him.

Apparently his background was none too grand either, being the child of those in service. It would appear that he probably lived beyond his means as he was constantly in debt and repeatedly asking friends and family for loans.

[rogue06]

John Dickens' income from the navy does not appear to have sufficed for his own or his large family's needs. Even the Wiki article [your favourite reference work] acknowledges that about him.

Apparently his background was none too grand either, being the child of those in service. It would appear that he probably lived beyond his means as he was constantly in debt and repeatedly asking friends and family for loans.

Since you cited Wikipedia:

Kelly writes that Scrooge may have been influenced by Dickens' conflicting feelings for his father, whom he loved and demonised. This psychological conflict may be responsible for the two radically different Scrooges in the tale—one a cold, stingy recluse, the other a benevolent, loving man.

But this is hardly an issue I wish to consider pursuing and never meant for it to be a matter of debate.

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

Since you cited Wikipedia:

Kelly writes that Scrooge may have been influenced by Dickens' conflicting feelings for his father, whom he loved and demonised. This psychological conflict may be responsible for the two radically different Scrooges in the tale—one a cold, stingy recluse, the other a benevolent, loving man.

But this is hardly an issue I wish to consider pursuing and never meant for it to be a matter of debate.

Note the qualification. That also appears to be the interpretation of the author of the Wiki article.

[rogue06]

Note the qualification. That also appears to be the interpretation of the author of the Wiki article.

Given that there are scores of theories for who was the inspiration for Scrooge, the best that anyone can ever say, barring a letter from Dickens stating who it was, is "may have."

[Cerebrum123]

With all due respect to your memory of this event you do realise that it has little credence beyond the imagination of a very small child. We also know that memory is not always reliable, particularly as time passes. From what you have written re your reference to Ghostbusters, and given that the movie came out in 1984, I suspect that you are at least in your mid forties, you are therefore recalling an event you believe occurred well over forty years ago.

I wasn't allowed to watch the Ghostbusters movies or The Real Ghostbusters* cartoon. My parents did allow me to have some of the toys, but that was it. My parents also incessantly drilled into my mind the distinction between fiction/imagination and reality. I was actively conditioned against believing something like what I saw was something that could really happen. Due to my Autism I had difficulties with imaginative** play.

I'm 35 years old. The toys were based on the cartoon series, which came out in 1986, a year before my birth. A show that I was not allowed to watch. The most I saw of it was either commercials, or the time it took to get up and change the channel***. While memory might not be infallible, some people have better accuracy and memory that goes back much further than 40 years without substantial change.

If it were just the one incident that I saw, then I'd probably be dismissing it too. However I've had way too many encounters that other people could verify by either them experiencing similar things in the area, or they were direct witnesses to it too. Similar accounts can be found throughout the entire planet. Some of them are fakes or hallucinations, but there are many that aren't either of those things.

This is what Ghostbusters toys looked like back then.



For the most part they are very stylized and cartoonish. Very different from what I saw.

*The reason the cartoon was called "The Real Ghostbusters" is that there were two Ghostbusters franchises. One of them became an instant hit, and the other very few people have heard of.

**I don't lack the capacity for imagination, that is aphantasia. In fact I can imagine things in great detail and in all senses, but it is always very "detached" from my physical surroundings. My parents noticed the difference between how I played with toys, and how I used my imagination compared to other kids. They just never attributed any significance to it.

***We didn't have a remote control back then. It was one of the older models that only could be changed by going up to it and turning the dial.