Announcement

Collapse

Apologetics 301 Guidelines

If you think this is the area where you tell everyone you are sorry for eating their lunch out of the fridge, it probably isn't the place for you


This forum is open discussion between atheists and all theists to defend and debate their views on religion or non-religion. Please respect that this is a Christian-owned forum and refrain from gratuitous blasphemy. VERY wide leeway is given in range of expression and allowable behavior as compared to other areas of the forum, and moderation is not overly involved unless necessary. Please keep this in mind. Atheists who wish to interact with theists in a way that does not seek to undermine theistic faith may participate in the World Religions Department. Non-debate question and answers and mild and less confrontational discussions can take place in General Theistics.


Forum Rules: Here
See more
See less

Send proof! of miracles...

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #61
    Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

    Which brings up an interesting point. Skeptics seem drawn to the "Where are the former amputees?" argument as proof that miracles don't happen, but even in the Bible, for whatever reason, there is no record of someone regrowing a limb. We read about restoration of existing but non-functioning limbs, but there is not a single miraculous account of a missing limb being regenerated.
    Closest thing is Malchus' ear, depending on how we understand the term "withered" in regard to certain limbs.
    Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

    Beige Federalist.

    "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

    Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.

    Proud member of the LGBFJB community.

    Would-be Grand Vizier of the Padishah Maxi-Super-Ultra-Hyper-Mega-MAGA King Trumpius Rex.

    Justice for Ashli Babbitt!

    Justice for Matthew Perna!

    Comment


    • #62
      Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

      Are you even reading my posts? I've already addressed this.
      I ask you again, why accept one set of claims for miracles and reject other such claims? And do you really believe in demons?
      "It ain't necessarily so
      The things that you're liable
      To read in the Bible
      It ain't necessarily so
      ."

      Sportin' Life
      Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

      Comment


      • #63
        Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

        I ask you again, why accept one set of claims for miracles and reject other such claims? And do you really believe in demons?
        Are you even reading my posts? I've already addressed this.
        Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
        But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
        Than a fool in the eyes of God


        From "Fools Gold" by Petra

        Comment


        • #64
          Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

          Are you even reading my posts? I've already addressed this.
          So you think only your Christian miracles are real and everything else is the work of demons. Thank you.
          "It ain't necessarily so
          The things that you're liable
          To read in the Bible
          It ain't necessarily so
          ."

          Sportin' Life
          Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

          Comment


          • #65
            Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

            So you think only your Christian miracles are real and everything else is the work of demons. Thank you.
            Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
            But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
            Than a fool in the eyes of God


            From "Fools Gold" by Petra

            Comment


            • #66
              Originally posted by Stoic View Post

              It may seem more likely to you, but I believe the clinical tests are the gold standard in diagnosing brain death.

              Source: https://n.neurology.org/content/74/23/1911


              In adults, recovery of neurologic function has not been reported after the clinical diagnosis of brain death has been established using the criteria given in the 1995 AAN practice parameter.

              © Copyright Original Source

              A case in the UK illustrates this issue.


              https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...ld-boy-is-dead

              Specialists should use a brain-stem test to try to establish whether a 12-year-old boy who has not regained consciousness since suffering “catastrophic” brain damage is dead, a high court judge has ruled.

              Mrs Justice Arbuthnot concluded that the test would be in Archie Battersbee’s best interests at a hearing in the family division of the high court in London on Friday.

              Specialists treating Archie at the Royal London Hospital in Whitechapel, east London, think it “highly likely” the youngster is dead and say life-support treatment should end.

              Bosses at the hospital’s governing trust, Barts Health NHS trust, asked the judge to rule that a brain-stem test would be in Archie’s best interests. A specialist told the judge that the brain stem was responsible for the functions that kept people alive.

              Archie’s parents, Hollie Dance, 46, and Paul Battersbee, 56, who are separated and both from Southend, Essex, have concerns about doctors’ proposals and want treatment to continue.

              They questioned the reliability of the test, fearing that it could cause more damage and asked why Archie, who lives with his mother, was not receiving treatment to relieve swelling on his brain.

              Dance has told how she found Archie with a ligature over his head after an incident at home on 7 April, and thinks he might have been taking part in an online challenge.

              She had urged the judge to give her son, a keen gymnast, “more time”. “Everyone is in such a rush,” she told the PA news agency. “I’m asking the judge to just give him more time – give him time to fight back.

              “It’s only been five weeks – it took me longer to get over the flu. What’s the rush?”

              Mrs Justice Arbuthnot oversaw a private hearing, but said Archie could be named in media reports of the case.

              A campaign organisation called the Christian Legal Centre said it was supporting Archie’s family. Andrea Williams, its chief executive, said after the ruling: “This case raises the significant moral, legal and medical question as to when a person is dead.

              “Archie’s parents do not accept that he is dead and are fighting for his life.”

              A Barts Health NHS trust spokesperson said: “This is an incredibly sad situation and our thoughts and sympathies are with Archie and his family at this time.

              “Following the decision that brain-stem testing is in Archie’s best interests, we will now take steps to arrange the testing to take place next week as directed by the court.”

              "It ain't necessarily so
              The things that you're liable
              To read in the Bible
              It ain't necessarily so
              ."

              Sportin' Life
              Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

              Comment


              • #67
                Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

                Maybe I missed the place where you stipulated demons responsible for miracles. Did you do so?
                1Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω
                "It's bigger inside" might work for a TARDIS - it doesn't work for a bronze sea.

                Comment


                • #68
                  Originally posted by tabibito View Post

                  Maybe I missed the place where you stipulated demons responsible for miracles. Did you do so?
                  It all goes back to this. Hyper_Alexander said:
                  Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
                  The point being that if one set of miracles are claimed to have taken place, why not others?
                  To which I responded:
                  Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                  Why not indeed? Even Pharoah's court magicians were able to perform supernatural feats as recorded in the book of Exodus. I don't discount the miracle claims of other religions. Rather, I assume they are either misatributed miracles of God, or the work of demons. You might ask, "On what basis do you make that assumption?" And the answer is simple: because the miracle of the resurrection trumps every other religiious belief. It's a miracle that only God could have performed, because he is the author of life. From there, the whole of Christian theology falls into place.
                  I really think she was hoping I would reject the supernatural claims of other religions so she could say, "Gotcha!" But of course I didn't, so then she started spinning her wheels trying to salvage her little trap while missing the point.
                  Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                  But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                  Than a fool in the eyes of God


                  From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

                    It all goes back to this. Hyper_Alexander said:
                    To which I responded:
                    I really think she was hoping I would reject the supernatural claims of other religions so she could say, "Gotcha!" But of course I didn't, so then she started spinning her wheels trying to salvage her little trap while missing the point.
                    Yet while you do not "discount the miracle claims of other religions", you "assume they are either misatributed miracles of God, or the work of demons."

                    Demons? You actually believe this?
                    "It ain't necessarily so
                    The things that you're liable
                    To read in the Bible
                    It ain't necessarily so
                    ."

                    Sportin' Life
                    Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

                      Yet while you do not "discount the miracle claims of other religions", you "assume they are either misatributed miracles of God, or the work of demons."

                      Demons? You actually believe this?
                      Yes, I believe that demons as described in the Bible exist. Why wouldn't I?
                      Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                      But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                      Than a fool in the eyes of God


                      From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

                        Yes, I believe that demons as described in the Bible exist. Why wouldn't I?
                        I would have to admit that "demons" does create a bit of a dilemma. What we know as demons are in Biblical terms numbered among the unclean spirits. It is perhaps best to read Biblical records of "demons" as "daemons," given that the word translated as "demon" actually means "lesser god." (though many of them were considered inimical.) Note that the Athenians thought that Paul, when he was proclaiming Christ, was preaching about a daemon. Still, from a monotheistic viewpoint, any supernatural entity other than God is necessarily an angel or a demon, assuming that ghosts and such are not considered supernatural.

                        And again, there is no telling from this late date which of the daemons actually existed.
                        Last edited by tabibito; 05-14-2022, 01:01 PM.
                        1Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω
                        "It's bigger inside" might work for a TARDIS - it doesn't work for a bronze sea.

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Originally posted by tabibito View Post

                          I would have to admit that "demons" does create a bit of a dilemma. What we know as demons are in Biblical terms numbered among the unclean spirits. It is perhaps best to read Biblical records of "demons" as "daemons," given that the word translated as "demon" actually means "lesser god." (though many of them were considered inimical.) Note that the Athenians thought that Paul, when he was proclaiming Christ, was preaching about a daemon. Still, from a monotheistic viewpoint, any supernatural entity other than God is necessarily an angel or a demon, assuming that ghosts and such are not considered supernatural.

                          And again, there is no telling from this late date which of the daemons actually existed.
                          That's why I say "demons as described in the Bible", so as not to confuse them with whatever "demons" Hyper_Alex might be thinking of.
                          Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                          But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                          Than a fool in the eyes of God


                          From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

                            Yet while you do not "discount the miracle claims of other religions", you "assume they are either misatributed miracles of God, or the work of demons."

                            Demons? You actually believe this?
                            Why would we believe in God but not in angels or demons?
                            Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

                            Beige Federalist.

                            "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

                            Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.

                            Proud member of the LGBFJB community.

                            Would-be Grand Vizier of the Padishah Maxi-Super-Ultra-Hyper-Mega-MAGA King Trumpius Rex.

                            Justice for Ashli Babbitt!

                            Justice for Matthew Perna!

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post

                              Why would we believe in God but not in angels or demons?
                              I think the question was more along the lines of why they aren't accepted as gods.
                              1Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω
                              "It's bigger inside" might work for a TARDIS - it doesn't work for a bronze sea.

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

                                Yes, I believe that demons as described in the Bible exist. Why wouldn't I?
                                It strikes me as odd that someone living in the third decade of the 21st century and who has no objections to utilising its technology [a computer and the internet] would hold views concerning malign spirits that are more reminiscent of someone living in the late Bronze Age.
                                "It ain't necessarily so
                                The things that you're liable
                                To read in the Bible
                                It ain't necessarily so
                                ."

                                Sportin' Life
                                Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                                Comment

                                Related Threads

                                Collapse

                                Topics Statistics Last Post
                                Started by tabibito, 05-12-2022, 10:42 PM
                                36 responses
                                168 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post tabibito  
                                Started by whag, 05-10-2022, 06:04 PM
                                5 responses
                                55 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post shunyadragon  
                                Started by Hypatia_Alexandria, 05-02-2022, 09:53 AM
                                70 responses
                                380 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post Hypatia_Alexandria  
                                Started by lee_merrill, 04-24-2022, 06:02 PM
                                138 responses
                                761 views
                                1 like
                                Last Post Hypatia_Alexandria  
                                Started by shunyadragon, 04-20-2022, 12:01 PM
                                223 responses
                                1,305 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post shunyadragon  
                                Working...
                                X