Historians general accept that Jesus was a real figure that lived during time the NT describes, a rabbi? that taught a Messianic message, claimed to be the Kig of the Jews, was condemned in Roman Court of Rebellion against Rome by claiming to be the King of the Jews, and was crucified under Roman Law. The question arises what about the Biblical Jesus Christ that skeptics seriously question ever existed. The life and records of Philo are a witness to this problem of the existence of the Biblical Jesus Christ.
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This forum is open discussion between atheists and all theists to defend and debate their views on religion or non-religion. Please respect that this is a Christian-owned forum and refrain from gratuitous blasphemy. VERY wide leeway is given in range of expression and allowable behavior as compared to other areas of the forum, and moderation is not overly involved unless necessary. Please keep this in mind. Atheists who wish to interact with theists in a way that does not seek to undermine theistic faith may participate in the World Religions Department. Non-debate question and answers and mild and less confrontational discussions can take place in General Theistics.
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Why do skeptics question whether the Biblical Jesus Christ ever existed?
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Why do skeptics question whether the Biblical Jesus Christ ever existed?
Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:
go with the flow the river knows . . .
Frank
I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil. -
Originally posted by shunyadragon View PostHistorians general accept that Jesus was a real figure that lived during time the NT describes, a rabbi? that taught a Messianic message, claimed to be the Kig of the Jews, was condemned in Roman Court of Rebellion against Rome by claiming to be the King of the Jews, and was crucified under Roman Law. The question arises what about the Biblical Jesus Christ that skeptics seriously question ever existed. The life and records of Philo are a witness to this problem of the existence of the Biblical Jesus Christ.
Generally the argument is over how accurate the descriptions are.
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
- 2 likes
-
Originally posted by shunyadragon View PostHistorians general accept that Jesus was a real figure that lived during time the NT describes, a rabbi? that taught a Messianic message, claimed to be the Kig of the Jews, was condemned in Roman Court of Rebellion against Rome by claiming to be the King of the Jews, and was crucified under Roman Law. The question arises what about the Biblical Jesus Christ that skeptics seriously question ever existed. The life and records of Philo are a witness to this problem of the existence of the Biblical Jesus Christ.
1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
.⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
Scripture before Tradition:
but that won't prevent others from
taking it upon themselves to deprive you
of the right to call yourself Christian.
⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
Comment
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Originally posted by tabibito View Post
Did Philo write about Herod? Pilate? Quirinius? Caiaphas? Annas? I don't know that he wrote about any personages among his contemporaries.
Read Helen K Bond's monograph on Pilate - chapter 2.
As your friend rogue06 so kindly gave us all a link to his pdf download site - I had a look and you can download your own copy of that work from there."It ain't necessarily so
The things that you're liable
To read in the Bible
It ain't necessarily so."
Sportin' Life
Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin
Comment
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I am surprised however that you are not repeating your wonted claims about the authenticity of Philo's works; that we can't possibly know what Philo really wrote because etc etc. His works were, after all, preserved mostly if not entirely by Christians.1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
.⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
Scripture before Tradition:
but that won't prevent others from
taking it upon themselves to deprive you
of the right to call yourself Christian.
⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
- 3 likes
Comment
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From Shunyadragon's source
Philo ... was living in or near Jerusalem when Jesus' miraculous birth and the Herodian massacre occurred. Philo spent time in Jerusalem where he had intimate connections with the royal house of Judaea. ...
Philo was there when Jesus made his triumphal entry into Jerusalem. He was there when the crucifixion with an earthquake, daytime darkness, and resurrection of the dead 'saints' took place and when Jesus rose from the dead after 3 days. He was there when Jesus ascended into heaven....
It seems that someone has been tinkering with the facts a touch.
THE WORKS OF PHILO, Complete and Unabridged Translated by C. D. Yonge
Relatively little is known about Philo’s life. He lived his entire life in Alexandria, Egypt,
the location of the single largest Jewish community outside of Palestine in this period (the
Jewish population of Alexandria was perhaps one million people). Philo came from a prominent
and wealthy family, was well educated, and was a leader within the Alexandrian Jewish
community. So far as is known, Philo visited the temple in Jerusalem only once in his lifetime
(On Providence 2.64).
Philo was involved in the crisis in his community related to the pogrom initiated in A
D.38 by the prefect. Flaccus, during the reign of the Roman emperor, Gaius Caligula. Philo was
selected to head the Jewish delegation that went to Rome to see Gaius Caligula. Philo’s account
of these events is found in his two writings Flaccus (In Flaccum) and The Embassy to Gaius (De
Legatione ad Gaium—for details on these events and writings, as well as all other facets of
Philo’s life and literary production, see the books and articles recommended near the conclusion
of this introduction).
I wonder who the someone might be.
1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
.⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
Scripture before Tradition:
but that won't prevent others from
taking it upon themselves to deprive you
of the right to call yourself Christian.
⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
Comment
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Originally posted by tabibito View PostFrom Shunyadragon's source
Philo ... was living in or near Jerusalem when Jesus' miraculous birth and the Herodian massacre occurred. Philo spent time in Jerusalem where he had intimate connections with the royal house of Judaea. ...
Philo was there when Jesus made his triumphal entry into Jerusalem. He was there when the crucifixion with an earthquake, daytime darkness, and resurrection of the dead 'saints' took place and when Jesus rose from the dead after 3 days. He was there when Jesus ascended into heaven....
It seems that someone has been tinkering with the facts a touch.
THE WORKS OF PHILO, Complete and Unabridged Translated by C. D. Yonge
Relatively little is known about Philo’s life. He lived his entire life in Alexandria, Egypt,
the location of the single largest Jewish community outside of Palestine in this period (the
Jewish population of Alexandria was perhaps one million people). Philo came from a prominent
and wealthy family, was well educated, and was a leader within the Alexandrian Jewish
community. So far as is known, Philo visited the temple in Jerusalem only once in his lifetime
(On Providence 2.64).
Philo was involved in the crisis in his community related to the pogrom initiated in A
D.38 by the prefect. Flaccus, during the reign of the Roman emperor, Gaius Caligula. Philo was
selected to head the Jewish delegation that went to Rome to see Gaius Caligula. Philo’s account
of these events is found in his two writings Flaccus (In Flaccum) and The Embassy to Gaius (De
Legatione ad Gaium—for details on these events and writings, as well as all other facets of
Philo’s life and literary production, see the books and articles recommended near the conclusion
of this introduction).
I wonder who the someone might be.
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
Comment
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Originally posted by rogue06 View PostI think the first clue that something was wrong with the description provided in the OP is that he is generally known as Philo of Alexandria.1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
.⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
Scripture before Tradition:
but that won't prevent others from
taking it upon themselves to deprive you
of the right to call yourself Christian.
⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
Comment
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Originally posted by tabibito View Post
Quite true. I do know little about Philo's works.
Originally posted by tabibito View PostI am surprised however that you are not repeating your wonted claims about the authenticity of Philo's works; that we can't possibly know what Philo really wrote because etc etc. ."It ain't necessarily so
The things that you're liable
To read in the Bible
It ain't necessarily so."
Sportin' Life
Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin
- 1 like
Comment
-
Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View PostThere is such a thing as the internet to check basic facts
Bond gives full citations in her monograph - you can find a good reference [or perhaps a university] library and verify her sources for yourself.1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
.⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
Scripture before Tradition:
but that won't prevent others from
taking it upon themselves to deprive you
of the right to call yourself Christian.
⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
Comment
-
Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View PostThere is such a thing as the internet to check basic facts
Bond gives full citations in her monograph - you can find a good reference [or perhaps a university] library and verify her sources for yourself.
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
Comment
-
Originally posted by rogue06 View PostDon't you think that when a source gets such a basic fact wrong -- namely, a claim that Philo was closely associated with Jerusalem and was there when Jesus was crucified -- which is so easy to refute, that this says an awful lot about the trustworthiness and accuracy (or lack of) of that source?
However, the thread title uses the phrase the"Biblical Jesus Christ"and the literary representations and portrayals we find in the various New Testament texts are self-evidently different and reflect the developing Christology.."It ain't necessarily so
The things that you're liable
To read in the Bible
It ain't necessarily so."
Sportin' Life
Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin
- 1 like
Comment
-
Originally posted by rogue06 View PostVery few deny that Jesus existed, although there are still a few, usually among the self-described New Atheists.
Generally the argument is over how accurate the descriptions are.Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:
go with the flow the river knows . . .
Frank
I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.
Comment
-
Originally posted by rogue06 View PostDon't you think that when a source gets such a basic fact wrong -- namely, a claim that Philo was closely associated with Jerusalem and was there when Jesus was crucified -- which is so easy to refute, that this says an awful lot about the trustworthiness and accuracy (or lack of) of that source?
Can you cite references to support your position of the limits of Philo's knowledge of Jerusalem ?Last edited by shunyadragon; 04-21-2022, 08:51 AM.Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:
go with the flow the river knows . . .
Frank
I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.
Comment
-
It is well documented that Philo made a pilgrimage to Jerusalem during th elife of Jesus, and intimate knew major figures of Palestine including the ruling and influential families.Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:
go with the flow the river knows . . .
Frank
I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.
Comment
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