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How can we know that God is?

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  • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
    It was accepted up until it was decided that it wasn't. And that was likely due to Christians utilizing it. So it had to go.
    No it wasn't. tabibito made that clear, I missed his/her qualification, but we are both agreed there were different versions.
    "It ain't necessarily so
    The things that you're liable
    To read in the Bible
    It ain't necessarily so
    ."

    Sportin' Life
    Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

      My error I missed that qualification. However, it might be contended that the Hebrew texts may not have conformed with the version of the LXX that Saul/Paul utilised.
      For quite a while, Paul presented the case first in the synagogues. Had he attempted to foist a version of the scriptures on the synagogues in question that they were not using, and which were at variance with what he was promoting, he would certainly have been scorned. It would be like a Mormon attempting to use the Book of Mormon to convince a Christian of the validity of his argument: their missionaries use the Bible.
      1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
      .
      ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
      Scripture before Tradition:
      but that won't prevent others from
      taking it upon themselves to deprive you
      of the right to call yourself Christian.

      ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

      Comment


      • Originally posted by tabibito View Post

        For quite a while
        What do you mean by "For quite a while"?

        Originally posted by tabibito View Post

        Had he attempted to foist a version of the scriptures on the synagogues in question that they were not using, and which were at variance with what he was promoting, he would certainly have been scorned.
        Given that you have acknowledged there were variants of the LXX, why would he have been "scorned"?
        "It ain't necessarily so
        The things that you're liable
        To read in the Bible
        It ain't necessarily so
        ."

        Sportin' Life
        Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

        Comment


        • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
          So reduced to just repeating your initial assertion sans a scintilla of supporting evidence.
          The “evidence” is scriptural. There is NO account of a realistic, material body of Jesus until the gospels. And they were 40 plus years after the fact i.e., two decades after Paul wrote his Epistles, which in turn were written two decades after Jesus would have lived and died.
          “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by tabibito View Post

            If Jesus had not been restored to physical life, he would not have been alive. Paul quite explicitly declared that、 post resurrection, Jesus was alive.
            Is Jesus not alive spiritually for believers, albeit sans a material body?
            “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Tassman View Post

              Is Jesus not alive spiritually for believers, albeit sans a material body?
              Not that I am aware of, but I am not cognisant of all variations of Christian belief.
              1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
              .
              ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
              Scripture before Tradition:
              but that won't prevent others from
              taking it upon themselves to deprive you
              of the right to call yourself Christian.

              ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Tassman View Post

                The “evidence” is scriptural. There is NO account of a realistic, material body of Jesus until the gospels. And they were 40 plus years after the fact i.e., two decades after Paul wrote his Epistles, which in turn were written two decades after Jesus would have lived and died.
                You really are a broken record. Mindlessly regurgitating your PRATT talking points ignoring that they were rebutted. I mean you don't even try to corroborate what you say, you just repeat yourself over and over.

                I'm always still in trouble again

                "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
                  What do you mean by "For quite a while"?

                  Given that you have acknowledged there were variants of the LXX, why would he have been "scorned"?
                  Putting it simply, the Jews to whom he was presenting his case would not have considered his source material suspect. It there had been a meaningful variation from their own materials, it would have undermined his credibility.
                  1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
                  .
                  ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
                  Scripture before Tradition:
                  but that won't prevent others from
                  taking it upon themselves to deprive you
                  of the right to call yourself Christian.

                  ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by tabibito View Post

                    Putting it simply, the Jews to whom he was presenting his case would not have considered his source material suspect.
                    They would indeed have considered the message he was presenting [judging from his authentic letters] as highly dubious and not Judaism.
                    "It ain't necessarily so
                    The things that you're liable
                    To read in the Bible
                    It ain't necessarily so
                    ."

                    Sportin' Life
                    Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                      You really are a broken record. Mindlessly regurgitating your PRATT talking points ignoring that they were rebutted. I mean you don't even try to corroborate what you say, you just repeat yourself over and over.
                      You’ve rebutted nothing. You’ve merely assumed what Paul as a Pharisee would have believed in your opinion, about the resurrection of Jesus.

                      But the scriptural evidence does not support your assumption. There is NO account of a realistic, touchable, material body of Jesus until the gospels. i.e., two decades after Paul wrote his Epistles.
                      “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Tassman View Post

                        You’ve rebutted nothing. You’ve merely assumed what Paul as a Pharisee would have believed in your opinion, about the resurrection of Jesus.

                        But the scriptural evidence does not support your assumption. There is NO account of a realistic, touchable, material body of Jesus until the gospels. i.e., two decades after Paul wrote his Epistles.
                        Paul's declarations about Jesus being raised from the dead and alive are more than plain enough in themselves: all the falderol about late dates of the gospels avail nothing for the counterargument.
                        1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
                        .
                        ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
                        Scripture before Tradition:
                        but that won't prevent others from
                        taking it upon themselves to deprive you
                        of the right to call yourself Christian.

                        ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by tabibito View Post

                          Paul's declarations about Jesus being raised from the dead and alive are more than plain enough in themselves: all the falderol about late dates of the gospels avail nothing for the counterargument.
                          It is so entertaining to read the arrogant comments from an uninformed member of the public that dismiss decades of academic research and study as "falderol about late dates of the gospels".
                          "It ain't necessarily so
                          The things that you're liable
                          To read in the Bible
                          It ain't necessarily so
                          ."

                          Sportin' Life
                          Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

                            It is so entertaining to read the arrogant comments from an uninformed member of the public that dismiss decades of academic research and study as "falderol about late dates of the gospels".
                            Given the nature of the source of the criticism, I consider that to be high praise indeed.

                            Why is it that when some of you are unable to present a reasoned and cogent answer you adopt the behaviour of ten year olds in the play-yard?
                            That you resort to derogatory gifs comments leads me to conclude you cannot offer a cogent response.
                            1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
                            .
                            ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
                            Scripture before Tradition:
                            but that won't prevent others from
                            taking it upon themselves to deprive you
                            of the right to call yourself Christian.

                            ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by tabibito View Post

                              Paul's declarations about Jesus being raised from the dead and alive are more than plain enough in themselves: all the falderol about late dates of the gospels avail nothing for the counterargument.
                              Well "Paul's declarations about Jesus being raised from the dead and alive" are not "plain enough in themselves" at all. You are viewing Paul's epistles through the lens of the gospels. And the text of the gospels represent an evolved edited text, without known authors.


                              “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Tassman View Post

                                Well "Paul's declarations about Jesus being raised from the dead and alive" are not "plain enough in themselves" at all. You are viewing Paul's epistles through the lens of the gospels.
                                This from a bloke who thinks that "alive" (without any modifications added) doesn't mean "alive" in the conventional sense.

                                It is said that a lie repeated often enough becomes the truth. Your sources have not lied often enough to convince impartial assessors. All you have proffered to date in support of the contention is debunked wresting of the meanings and significance of words.

                                And the text of the gospels represent an evolved edited text, without known authors.
                                Of course they are. The people who credited the books to particular authors had no idea who might have written the gospels, and assigned authorship to random minor characters (John excepted) to enhance the books' credibility. I would want some sort of evidence (beyond questionable speculation) for all that before accepting the story.

                                It is strange that evidence for all this editing exists in the form of variant manuscripts - but those manuscripts do not show significant variation in the basic writings.
                                Last edited by tabibito; 06-21-2022, 02:28 AM.
                                1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
                                .
                                ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
                                Scripture before Tradition:
                                but that won't prevent others from
                                taking it upon themselves to deprive you
                                of the right to call yourself Christian.

                                ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

                                Comment

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