How can we know that God is?

[tabibito]

Even after pointing out that for much if not most of what we know from that period comes from single sources, you point out that the Bible is a collection of separate works written by at least ten different authors, and for good measure some of the other earliest Christian writing such as those from the Apostolic Fathers.

That is dismissed because they're all Christian works, so you point out that it is confirmed by non-Christians of the period, and even quote Tacitus.

The only people who say the Earth is round are people who think the Earth is round, so their testimony is unreliable.

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

New Testament is obviously being referred to nitwit.

Not according to what you wrote - my emphasis.

Even after pointing out that for much if not most of what we know from that period comes from single sources, you point out that the Bible is a collection of separate works written by at least ten different authors, and for good measure some of the other earliest Christian writing such as those from the Apostolic Fathers.

That is dismissed because they're all Christian works,

[rogue06]

She seems to have this idea that she can win a debate by scoring nothing but cheap points.

And reveals she is incapable of rebuttal.

^{That should get her frantically
Googling looking for something}

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

And reveals she is incapable of rebuttal.

That is amusing coming from someone who made wild speculations about the business dealings of Cephas/Peter and when asked to provide any evidence for those speculations - ran away!

[tabibito]

That is amusing coming from someone who made wild speculations about the business dealings of Cephas/Peter and when asked to provide any evidence for those speculations - ran away!

You asked for speculation. And you were given speculation based on common practice for the time and place: it was far from wild speculation.

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

You asked for speculation.

I never requested any "speculation". rogue06 proffered that of his own volition.

And you were given speculation based on common practice for the time and place: it was far from wild speculation.

Without an iota of evidence.

[tabibito]

I never requested any "speculation".

You didn't? You know that there is no information available to explain the particulars about Peter for which you asked. "What might have contributed to Peter to do such and so?" however phrased, was therefore a request for speculation.

Without an iota of evidence.

That is what speculation about matters for which there is no information involves, yes.

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

You didn't? You know that there is no information available to explain the particulars about Peter for which you asked. "What might have contributed to Peter to do such and so?" however phrased, was therefore a request for speculation.

Can you give me my exact quote where I request speculative opinion?



Let us be quite clear about this.

It would have been more judicious to have replied to me with a post along the lines of:

"I don't know because we have no evidence for Cephas/Peter and his fishing activities, but, if we look at the situation within that region at that period, it is possible, that this figure , assuming he existed, might have been involved in... X Y Z"

However, qualification and caveats are not overly popular with some here.

Instead emphatic statements and unfounded claims about this character [including the size of his house] and his business opportunities were presented. This eventually led to the preposterous contention that I had been provided with a "fact" :

The fact is that I showed that Peter was more than a subsistence-level fisherman only catching enough to live on and not being able to dispute it you simply hand waved it off with this sorry excuse.

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

I have been doing a rummage through the things that are said to demonstrate that 2Peter is a late document, as posted in Early Christian Writings. So far, there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of merit to the argument.

e.g.
"The general statement in II Pet 2:11 makes sense only if note has been made of the concrete example mentioned in Jude 9. The image in Jude 12 f is more genuine and more plastic than the parallel in II Pet 2:17."
2Peter 2:11 doesn't need any outside reference to make sense, and Jude 12 is certainly more eloquent than 2Peter 11:17 - but there is only a casual link in the wording. If Peter (the author of 2Peter) really were depending on Jude, the wording should more closely resemble that of Jude. As it is the two verses are only using what might be considered common imagery.

"II Pet 3:3 ff portrays the libertines as the deniers of the parousia"
The word for mockers (empaiktai[s]) is used only by Peter and Jude in the New Testament, but also in Isaiah (once, but in a different context).

"The conceptual world and the rhetorical language are so strongly influenced by Hellenism as to rule out Peter definitely, nor could it have been written by one of his helpers or pupils under instructions from Peter. Not even at some time after the death of the apostle.
The Hellenistic concepts include: the αρετη of God (1:3)," (the excellence of God)

"arete" is used in Philippians 4:8 (in a general way). The "arete of God" is also referenced in the LXX in Habbakuk (3:4 - 3:3 in the LXX). There is no particularly Hellenistic concept involved.

The rest doesn't seem any better.

You did not read to the end of the opening comment on Kirby's site - or chose not to post it. My emphasis.

As to dating, Perrin suggests (The New Testament: An Introduction, p. 262): "He is probably the latest of all the New Testament writers, and a date about A.D. 140 would be appropriate." Nearly all scholars would agree with a date sometime in the second century, probably in the second quarter.

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

A final point of information

A large town or small city. According to J. Reed's Archaeology and the Galilean Jesus: A Reexamination of the Evidence the population was likely 1500.

Just two comments from Reed who clearly regards Capernaum as a large village and not overly wealthy. [My emphasis.]

As Capernaum was a large fishing and agricultural village at the lower end of the socio-economic scale, the site's location on the Sea of Galilee, in close proximity to Philipp's territory and regions populated by gentiles, but far from Antipas's centers [sic] of power shaped considerable portions of the Gospel's traditions. [...] In terms of religious and ethnic indicators, continuity exists between Galilean villages Yodefat, Capernaum, and Nazareth and the city of Sepphoris.

[rogue06]

That is amusing coming from someone who made wild speculations about the business dealings of Cephas/Peter and when asked to provide any evidence for those speculations - ran away!

Are you hallucinating? Mixing up your medications appears to have led you to imagining all sorts of things.

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

Are you hallucinating? Mixing up your medications appears to have led you to imagining all sorts of things.

You never replied to my post [#939] https://theologyweb.com/campus/forum...63#post1376518

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

Your whining about this is like listening to someone claim you didn't provide evidence that the dog was the one to poop in the house even though she was the only one there all day.

And an example of "wild speculation" was your claim that Peter was a starving fisherman barely able to catch enough to feed himself when there is absolutely no evidence for that and plenty to contradict it (he owned a fair-sized house, and a boat).

Oh I forgot. You think your fanciful speculations are "fact"!

[rogue06]

I never requested any "speculation". rogue06 proffered that of his own volition.

Without an iota of evidence.

Your whining about this is like listening to someone claim you didn't provide evidence that the dog was the one to poop in the house even though it's dog poop and she was the only one there all day.

And an example of "wild speculation" was your claim that Peter was a starving fisherman barely able to catch enough to feed himself when there is absolutely no evidence for that and plenty to contradict it (he owned a fair-sized house, and a boat).

[rogue06]

A final point of information

Just two comments from Reed who clearly regards Capernaum as a large village and not overly wealthy. [My emphasis.]

As Capernaum was a large fishing and agricultural village at the lower end of the socio-economic scale, the site's location on the Sea of Galilee, in close proximity to Philipp's territory and regions populated by gentiles, but far from Antipas's centers [sic] of power shaped considerable portions of the Gospel's traditions. [...] In terms of religious and ethnic indicators, continuity exists between Galilean villages Yodefat, Capernaum, and Nazareth and the city of Sepphoris.

1500 residents is more than a village, large or small. Even today that is a fair-sized town.