How can we know that God is?

[tabibito]

I'm sure your repeatedly referring to H_A using "his" and "him" will be much appreciated.

She has a history of letting her brand of mysticism slip out around the cracks several times.[list][*] "we do not know if any of Jesus’ alleged disciples and followers mentioned in those actually existed"

Quite an amusing little thread, that one.

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

Your first sentence is basically a denial

My first sentence in that reply is a question.

Your second sentence tacitly recognizes that your initial denial was spurious at best and sought to justify what you previously implied didn't exist.

Applying your argument and given that Harry Potter only appears in J K Rowling's novels should we assume he did/does actually exist?

Your third sentence brings up someone not mentioned. Attempt to distract and deflect?

An example of claims without any supporting evidence.

[Mountain Man]

If this miraculous event occurred why did no one else observe it and leave us their comment upon it?

Right, you reject the four independent accounts we have about Jesus life, death, and resurrection, but if just one more source happened to mention it, all your doubts would suddenly vanish.

Who do you think you're kidding?

[rogue06]

Right, you reject the four independent accounts we have about Jesus life, death, and resurrection, but if just one more source happened to mention it, all your doubts would suddenly vanish.

Who do you think you're kidding?

Don't forget that Paul also confirmed it in his letters.

Once again it appears that I need to point out that there is so little that remains of writings from the first century A.D., it is impossible to know what was and what wasn't recorded. Or as the renowned historian and Biblical academic, Edward Musgrave Blaiklock, chair of classics at the University of Auckland for over 20 years, described what we have from the entire first century in his Jesus Christ: Man or Myth?:

"Bookends set a foot apart on this desk where I write would enclose the works from those significant years."

[rogue06]

My first sentence in that reply is a question.

A denial and challenge in the form of questions.

Did I? Where?

Applying your argument and given that Harry Potter only appears in J K Rowling's novels should we assume he did/does actually exist?

Never a good sign when someone can only respond with something obvious irrelevant and off-topic.

More attempts to distract and deflect?

An example of claims without any supporting evidence.

And I thought your last statement obvious irrelevant and off-topic.

[tabibito]

A denial and challenge in the form of questions.

Did I? Where?

Never a good sign when someone can only respond with something obvious irrelevant and off-topic.

More attempts to distract and deflect?


And I thought your last statement obvious irrelevant and off-topic.

There were hostile witnesses who claimed that Jesus of Nazareth actually existed, actually performed miracles, and actually was crucified. I don't recall any witnesses - even sympathetic ones - coming forward to claim that Harry Potter actually existed. Moreover, the original copies clearly state that the work is fiction.

[Mountain Man]

Don't forget that Paul also confirmed it in his letters.

Once again it appears that I need to point out that there is so little that remains of writings from the first century A.D., it is impossible to know what was and what wasn't recorded. Or as the renowned historian and Biblical academic, Edward Musgrave Blaiklock, chair of classics at the University of Auckland for over 20 years, described what we have from the entire first century in his Jesus Christ: Man or Myth?:

"Bookends set a foot apart on this desk where I write would enclose the works from those significant years."

Yeah, but who knows if Paul really existed? For that matter, maybe the Bible itself doesn't really exist is just a figment of our collective imaginations.

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

Right, you reject the four independent accounts we have about Jesus life, death, and resurrection, but if just one more source happened to mention it, all your doubts would suddenly vanish.

Who do you think you're kidding?

These are literary embellishments and they contradict one another.

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

Don't forget that Paul also confirmed it in his letters.

Once again it appears that I need to point out that there is so little that remains of writings from the first century A.D., it is impossible to know what was and what wasn't recorded. Or as the renowned historian and Biblical academic, Edward Musgrave Blaiklock, chair of classics at the University of Auckland for over 20 years, described what we have from the entire first century in his Jesus Christ: Man or Myth?:

"Bookends set a foot apart on this desk where I write would enclose the works from those significant years."

Paul describes seeing a figure. He never mentions tombs, angels/young men, or earthquakes. All that came later.

Whatever Paul imagined he saw was not real but a figment of his imagination.

Dead bodies remain dead.

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

A denial and challenge in the form of questions.

You never provided any evidence.

Never a good sign when someone can only respond with something obvious irrelevant and off-topic.

A figure unattested anywhere else appears in a literary account.

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

Yeah, but who knows if Paul really existed? For that matter, maybe the Bible itself doesn't really exist is just a figment of our collective imaginations.

I accept that someone wrote those letters and he called himself Paul and that he established various sects around parts of the eastern Roman empire, albeit at some distance from Jerusalem.

[tabibito]

Paul describes seeing a figure. He never mentions tombs, angels/young men, or earthquakes. All that came later.

For the angels and earthquake are part of the foundational teaching, which Paul's letters do not address. He does however, mention Jesus being buried - and the passage where he does so is explicitly declared to be a recap.

Whatever Paul imagined he saw was not real but a figment of his imagination.

The queen of unfounded speculation has spoken.

[Mountain Man]

These are literary embellishments and they contradict one another.

Yeah, yeah, we've been over this before, and you use these supposed "embellishments" and "contradictions" as an excuse to dismiss the points where the gospels unambiguously agree (for instance, they all agree that Jesus was crucified, buried, and rose from the dead).

[shunyadragon]

It would be kind of hard to make a case that a person is not a mythicist when he declares that the accounts are mythical embellishment, even when the he is a she.

Whether he or she, are you saying all secular academic historians are mythicists? ALL the miraculous and supernatural claims by ALL the ancient and contemporary religions are not accepted by secular academic historians. They are described historically as 'religious beliefs' and not concluded that they are true nor false claims.

I am uncertain as to how the accusation of mythicist' has any constructive meaning here, and it needs further explanation.

[tabibito]

Whether he or she, are you saying all secular academic historians are mythicists? ALL the miraculous and supernatural claims by ALL the ancient and contemporary religions are not accepted by secular academic historians. They are described historically as 'religious beliefs' and not concluded that they are true nor false claims.

I am uncertain as to how the accusation of mythicist' has any constructive meaning here, and it needs further explanation.

Which part of "all secular academic historians" relates to "person who declares the accounts are mythical"?

or even to

"There is a large pool of eminent theologians of the mythicist stamp ..."?