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  • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

    You keep insisting that sunset/twilight is the start of a new day. And ignore the comment made in my link that:

    To avoid any confusion the text created a link in chapter 12 to the feast of unleavened bread which is on the 15th, making it clear that this time is connected to the next day, and is to be done at the end of the 14th leading to the 15th day.


    I fail to see how you can keep contending that the sacrifice takes place at "the start of 14th". As is clear from the text it self-evidently does not.
    Do you also claim (based on that text) that the religious centre for the Samaritan sect is Jerusalem because Mt Gerizim is not mentioned in your text?

    The S.A.M.A.R.I.T.A.N rite celebrates Passover on the fourteenth, as declared by the high priest of the S.A.M.A.R.I.T.A.N sect. The text that you cited makes no reference to the S.A.M.A.R.I.T.A.N rite. The text you cited refers only to the Judaist rite. The Northern sect is not referenced by that text, it addresses matters as followed by the Southern sect.

    You're trying to use an explanation of Jewish perspectives, explaining Jewish temple rites, to support claims that you make about a sect that isn't even considered in that text. It makes no mention of the Gerizim rite, it refers only to the Jerusalem rite.

    The SAMARITAN declaration is that the SAMARITAN Passover celebration is held on the fourteenth.
    1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
    .
    ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
    Scripture before Tradition:
    but that won't prevent others from
    taking it upon themselves to deprive you
    of the right to call yourself Christian.

    ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

    Comment


    • Originally posted by tabibito View Post

      Do you also claim (based on that text) that the religious centre for the Samaritan sect is Jerusalem because Mt Gerizim is not mentioned in your text?

      The S.A.M.A.R.I.T.A.N rite celebrates Passover on the fourteenth, as declared by the high priest of the S.A.M.A.R.I.T.A.N sect. The text that you cited makes no reference to the S.A.M.A.R.I.T.A.N rite. The text you cited refers only to the Judaist rite. The Northern sect is not referenced by that text, it addresses matters as followed by the Southern sect.

      You're trying to use an explanation of Jewish perspectives, explaining Jewish temple rites, to support claims that you make about a sect that isn't even considered in that text. It makes no mention of the Gerizim rite, it refers only to the Jerusalem rite.

      The SAMARITAN declaration is that the SAMARITAN Passover celebration is held on the fourteenth.
      The evening is not the beginning of a day I have no idea from where you get that idea. Twilight occurs before sunset not sunrise.
      "It ain't necessarily so
      The things that you're liable
      To read in the Bible
      It ain't necessarily so
      ."

      Sportin' Life
      Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

        The evening is not the beginning of a day I have no idea from where you get that idea. Twilight occurs before sunset not sunrise.
        The problem for your argument is that the Samaritans conduct the Passover sacrifice at the beginning of the day, at sunset. Both the Hebrew and Samaritan calendars have the day starting with sunset.

        FROM YOUR OWN SOURCE

        Second Temple Interpretation
        The new interpretation used in the second temple attempted to interpret the word Erev as having the meaning of “Evening” which means that it is not the sun setting, but rather the sun moving to the west. This meant that the time was of several hours and lasts from midday to the evening. This interpretation enabled the large number of celebrates to do a very long service which was not limited to just slaughtering the animals.


        Second Temple REinterpretation: the temple rite, instituted in response to the need to conduct the sacrifice for large numbers of congregants.

        FROM YOUR OWN SOURCE

        To avoid any confusion the text created a link in chapter 12 to the feast of unleavened bread which is on the 15th, making it clear that this time is connected to the next day, and is to be done at the end of the 14th leading to the 15th day.
        ...
        the term is used for indicating a time that belongs to the end of the light time of the day when the sun sets, but there is still light. This time of day is in limbo and creates a difficult time reference which has created confusion. The understanding of this term is that it is used to describe the time between two days, and exists both in the previous day and the next. It is a transitional time which takes the person out of the previous day and takes him into the next.


        The temple rite sees the appropriate time for the sacrifice as the transition from the 14th to the 15th, just before the start of the 15th. The Samaritan rite sees the appropriate time as transition from the 13th to the 14th, just after the end of the 13th.

        No correlation between the temple rite and the gospel accounts is possible. The four gospel accounts are fully consonant with the Samaritan rite.

        Where is the Galilee? Nowhere in Judah. It was the northern part of what had been the Northern (i.e. Samaritan) Kingdom.
        Last edited by tabibito; 07-08-2022, 06:32 AM.
        1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
        .
        ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
        Scripture before Tradition:
        but that won't prevent others from
        taking it upon themselves to deprive you
        of the right to call yourself Christian.

        ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

        Comment


        • Originally posted by tabibito View Post

          The problem for your argument is that the Samaritans conduct the Passover sacrifice at the beginning of the day, at sunset. Both the Hebrew and Samaritan calendars have the day starting with sunset.

          FROM YOUR OWN SOURCE

          Second Temple Interpretation
          The new interpretation used in the second temple attempted to interpret the word Erev as having the meaning of “Evening” which means that it is not the sun setting, but rather the sun moving to the west. This meant that the time was of several hours and lasts from midday to the evening. This interpretation enabled the large number of celebrates to do a very long service which was not limited to just slaughtering the animals.


          Second Temple REinterpretation: the temple rite, instituted in response to the need to conduct the sacrifice for large numbers of congregants.

          FROM YOUR OWN SOURCE

          To avoid any confusion the text created a link in chapter 12 to the feast of unleavened bread which is on the 15th, making it clear that this time is connected to the next day, and is to be done at the end of the 14th leading to the 15th day.
          ...
          the term is used for indicating a time that belongs to the end of the light time of the day when the sun sets, but there is still light. This time of day is in limbo and creates a difficult time reference which has created confusion. The understanding of this term is that it is used to describe the time between two days, and exists both in the previous day and the next. It is a transitional time which takes the person out of the previous day and takes him into the next.


          The temple rite sees the appropriate time for the sacrifice as the transition from the 14th to the 15th, just before the start of the 15th. The Samaritan rite sees the appropriate time as transition from the 13th to the 14th, just after the end of the 13th.

          No correlation between the temple rite and the gospel accounts is possible. The four gospel accounts are fully consonant with the Samaritan rite.

          Where is the Galilee? Nowhere in Judah. It was the northern part of what had been the Northern (i.e. Samaritan) Kingdom.
          The section you have quoted from my own source does not alter the fact that the sacrifice would have taken place at twilight on 14th day. The Samaritans today still sacrifice as the 14th day comes to an end not at the beginning.

          And now we have you suggesting that the four canonical gospels [and of course Jesus] were all observing the Samaritan rites!
          "It ain't necessarily so
          The things that you're liable
          To read in the Bible
          It ain't necessarily so
          ."

          Sportin' Life
          Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

            The section you have quoted from my own source does not alter the fact that the sacrifice would have taken place at twilight on 14th day. The Samaritans today still sacrifice as the 14th day comes to an end not at the beginning.

            And now we have you suggesting that the four canonical gospels [and of course Jesus] were all observing the Samaritan rites!
            I think that the Samaritans know a little more about their own procedures for Passover than "some anonymous poster on an insignificant bulletin board."
            Given that the Samaritan information bulletin shows that they conduct the Passover sacrifice at the start of Abib 14th, it is reasonable to consider your claims to the contrary worthless.

            The majority consensus claim that John is in conflict with the Synoptics' authors with regard to the day that Christ was executed is inescapably shown to be incorrect.
            Last edited by tabibito; 07-09-2022, 02:13 AM.
            1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
            .
            ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
            Scripture before Tradition:
            but that won't prevent others from
            taking it upon themselves to deprive you
            of the right to call yourself Christian.

            ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

            Comment


            • Originally posted by tabibito View Post

              I think that the Samaritans know a little more about their own procedures for Passover than "some anonymous poster on an insignificant bulletin board."
              Given that the Samaritan information bulletin shows that they conduct the Passover sacrifice at the start of Abib 14th, it is reasonable to consider your claims to the contrary worthless.

              The majority consensus claim that John is in conflict with the Synoptics' authors with regard to the day that Christ was executed is inescapably shown to be incorrect.

              That is to say: "Pardon me, Maam, your agenda is showing."
              1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
              .
              ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
              Scripture before Tradition:
              but that won't prevent others from
              taking it upon themselves to deprive you
              of the right to call yourself Christian.

              ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

              Comment


              • Originally posted by tabibito View Post

                I think that the Samaritans know a little more about their own procedures for Passover than "some anonymous poster on an insignificant bulletin board."
                Given that the Samaritan information bulletin shows that they conduct the Passover sacrifice at the start of Abib 14th, it is reasonable to consider your claims to the contrary worthless.

                The majority consensus claim that John is in conflict with the Synoptics' authors with regard to the day that Christ was executed is inescapably shown to be incorrect.
                Regardless of the Samaritan rites; are you seriously suggesting that Jesus was in Jerusalem to celebrate the Samaritan Passover?

                Putting aside your charts and calculations; on what textual evidence from those four canonical gospels [as they have come down to us] are you premising that comment?

                .
                "It ain't necessarily so
                The things that you're liable
                To read in the Bible
                It ain't necessarily so
                ."

                Sportin' Life
                Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                Comment


                • Originally posted by tabibito View Post


                  That is to say: "Pardon me, Maam, your agenda is showing."
                  My consistent point has been that these four accounts are contradictory and, premised on the textual evidence as it has come down to us, that still stands.

                  The issue you have is in reconciling yourself to the fact that these accounts were written decades later and for different audiences in different locations. That is why [with regard to this particular event] they do not harmonise.

                  They are not original MSS of eye-witness "statements" .
                  "It ain't necessarily so
                  The things that you're liable
                  To read in the Bible
                  It ain't necessarily so
                  ."

                  Sportin' Life
                  Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

                    My consistent point has been that these four accounts are contradictory and, premised on the textual evidence as it has come down to us, that still stands.

                    The issue you have is in reconciling yourself to the fact that these accounts were written decades later and for different audiences in different locations. That is why [with regard to this particular event] they do not harmonise.

                    They are not original MSS of eye-witness "statements" .
                    To accept your story, I would have to reject the textual evidence. I would have to accept that Luke got it wrong when he said that the day the lamb must be sacrificed is also the first day of unleavened bread (different days in the temple rite and in the Torah), and that the meal was eaten on the same day that Jesus was executed. Either that, or I would have to accept that Jesus was interred the day before he was executed. There is no regard for anything resembling scholarship to be found in your assertions.
                    1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
                    .
                    ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
                    Scripture before Tradition:
                    but that won't prevent others from
                    taking it upon themselves to deprive you
                    of the right to call yourself Christian.

                    ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by tabibito View Post

                      To accept your story, I would have to reject the textual evidence.
                      As the textual evidence is all we have, what other option is there?

                      Originally posted by tabibito View Post
                      I would have to accept that Luke got it wrong when he said that the day the lamb must be sacrificed is also the first day of unleavened bread (different days in the temple rite and in the Torah), and that the meal was eaten on the same day that Jesus was executed.
                      Luke never mentions the "first day" of unleavened bread. That reference is found in Matthew and Mark. Luke merely mentions the day of unleavened bread [22.7]. It seems clear that these writers were not cognizant of Jewish festivals


                      Originally posted by tabibito View Post
                      Either that, or I would have to accept that Jesus was interred the day before he was executed.
                      Or that the date of execution and this alleged interment is wrong; given that we have no idea as to the year in which this execution took place.

                      Originally posted by tabibito View Post
                      There is no regard for anything resembling scholarship to be found in your assertions.
                      Well there is certainly nothing scholarly in yours despite all your little charts.

                      You are clutching at any straw in a desperate attempt to reconcile those four accounts and have now suggested that Jesus was in Jerusalem [as opposed to Mt Gerizim] to celebrate the Samaritan Passover. I realise that Mt Gerizim is at no great distance but is that going to be your next contention? Namely, and despite any textual evidence, he was actually at Mt Gerizim?

                      Last edited by Hypatia_Alexandria; 07-09-2022, 07:57 AM.
                      "It ain't necessarily so
                      The things that you're liable
                      To read in the Bible
                      It ain't necessarily so
                      ."

                      Sportin' Life
                      Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                      Comment


                      • [QUOTE=Hypatia_Alexandria;n1394213]As the textual evidence is all we have, what other option is there?

                        Luke never mentions the "first day" of unleavened bread. That reference is found in Matthew and Mark. Luke merely mentions the day of unleavened bread [22.7]. It seems clear that these writers were not cognizant of Jewish festivals
                        Correct, "first" is an interpolation in the translation I was using. The lack of "first" in the original changes nothing, given that Passover is not the Day of Unleavened Bread in the Torah or Temple rites.


                        Or that the date of execution and this alleged interment is wrong; given that we have no idea as to the year in which this execution took place.
                        Not knowing the year does not impact on the sequence portrayed by any of the authors.

                        Well there is certainly nothing scholarly in yours despite all your little charts.
                        Nothing in what I have said ignores the readily available evidence. For example, the fact that the Samaritan Jews conduct their sacrifices during the evening at the start of the 14th (which you continue to deny) shows that a Passover sacrifice can be conducted at the beginning of the fourteenth: and that is proven by the fact that the sect's own published data says as much (despite your denials).

                        You are clutching at any straw in a desperate attempt to reconcile those four accounts and have now suggested that Jesus was in Jerusalem [as opposed to Mt Gerizim] to celebrate the Samaritan Passover. I realise that Mt Gerizim is at no great distance but is that going to be your next contention? Namely, and despite any textual evidence, he was actually at Mt Gerizim?
                        That's your story and you're going to stick to it. Simple fact: the text of Luke as it stands declares that the meal was Passover, that it was eaten during the night before Jesus was crucified, and that Jesus was buried on the same date (whatever that date might have been) as the meal. A further simple fact is that the Passover as celebrated by Jesus on the day he was crucified conforms with the Samaritan rite. That rite demonstrates that the Passover sacrifice does not have to be conducted during the afternoon of the Day of Preparation.

                        Re your pitiful little straw man: Saying that the rite as performed by Jesus conforms with the Samaritan rite of Passover does not say that it was a Samaritan celebration. An Anglican celebration of Easter might conform with a Lutheran celebration of Easter - it wouldn't make the Anglican celebration a Lutheran celebration. The whole argument that the Synoptics' authors claim that Jesus was crucified during a Sabbath (i.e. the day after that nominated by John as the day of crucifixion) is premised on the idea that there was a uniform prescribed celebration of Passover: there wasn't. That premise is demonstrated false; a sacrifice at the beginning of the day is permitted. What is not permitted is a trial by the Sanhedrin on a Sabbath, and buying linen cloth (or anything else) on a Sabbath. (Yes - Luke doesn't mention purchase of the cloth.)

                        While the little cavil about Luke's not mentioning "first" Day of Unleavened Bread is sustained, information provided by Matthew and Mark accords with and expands on Luke's account.
                        Last edited by tabibito; 07-09-2022, 10:00 AM.
                        1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
                        .
                        ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
                        Scripture before Tradition:
                        but that won't prevent others from
                        taking it upon themselves to deprive you
                        of the right to call yourself Christian.

                        ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by tabibito View Post

                          Correct, "first" is an interpolation in the translation I was using. The lack of "first" in the original changes nothing, given that Passover is not the Day of Unleavened Bread in the Torah or Temple rites.
                          Hence the synoptics are wrong. They got their days confused.

                          Originally posted by tabibito View Post


                          Not knowing the year does not impact on the sequence portrayed by any of the authors.
                          Of course it does. Passover is a lunisolar festival and hence the day changes. It is the Essenes that had a calendar whereby the festival always fell on the same day of the week each year - the day we would now refer to as Wednesday.


                          Originally posted by tabibito View Post
                          Nothing in what I have said ignores the readily available evidence. For example, the fact that the Samaritan Jews conduct their sacrifices during the evening at the start of the 14th (which you continue to deny) shows that a Passover sacrifice can be conducted at the beginning of the fourteenth: and that is proven by the fact that the sect's own published data says as much (despite your denials).
                          You are contending that the Samaritans ignore the injunction in Exodus 12. On what evidence from the Samaritan Torah?

                          Originally posted by tabibito View Post


                          That's your story and you're going to stick to it.
                          It is not my "story" it is glaringly obvious from your posts.

                          "It ain't necessarily so
                          The things that you're liable
                          To read in the Bible
                          It ain't necessarily so
                          ."

                          Sportin' Life
                          Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
                            Hence the synoptics are wrong. They got their days confused.

                            Of course it does. Passover is a lunisolar festival and hence the day changes. It is the Essenes that had a calendar whereby the festival always fell on the same day of the week each year - the day we would now refer to as Wednesday.
                            How can they be wrong when a perfectly valid use of the term for the 14th is in use by the the Samaritans. Whether it was wrong would depend on what they expected their intended audiences to understand by the term. Does that term give no indication of who might have been Luke's intended audience? Not even the slightest of hints?

                            You are contending that the Samaritans ignore the injunction in Exodus 12. On what evidence from the Samaritan Torah?
                            The official information bulletin released by the Samaritan High Priest calls the fourteenth the first day of unleavened bread. You might just as well ask why the Jews call the 15th Passover when according to the Torah, Passover is the 14th, or why they call the entire Festival of Unleaveneds the Passover festival when Passover according to the Torah is a single day preceding the .Festival of Unleavened bread. Your own sources admit that there is ambiguity in precisely which of the day's evenings is intended as the time for Passover. There is a difference of opinion between the Temple and Samaritan sects about which interpretation is correct. I'm not going to set myself up as the adjudicator. Praxis is that both interpretations are in use, regardless of whether one or the other is rejected by external parties.

                            It is not my "story" it is glaringly obvious from your posts.
                            That's your story and you're going to stick to it, despite the evidence provided even by your own sources.
                            Last edited by tabibito; 07-09-2022, 10:56 AM.
                            1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
                            .
                            ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
                            Scripture before Tradition:
                            but that won't prevent others from
                            taking it upon themselves to deprive you
                            of the right to call yourself Christian.

                            ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by tabibito View Post

                              How can they be wrong when a perfectly valid use of the term for the 14th is in use by the the Samaritans. Whether it was wrong would depend on what they expected their intended audiences to understand by the term. Does that term give no indication of who might have been Luke's intended audience? Not even the slightest of hints?



                              The official information bulletin released by the Samaritan High Priest calls the fourteenth the first day of unleavened bread. You might just as well ask why the Jews call the 15th Passover when according to the Torah, Passover is the 14th, or why they call the entire Festival of Unleaveneds the Passover festival when Passover according to the Torah is a single day preceding the .Festival of Unleavened bread. Your own sources admit that there is ambiguity in precisely which of the day's evenings is intended as the time for Passover. There is a difference of opinion between the Temple and Samaritan sects about which interpretation is correct. I'm not going to set myself up as the adjudicator. Praxis is that both interpretations are in use, regardless of whether one or the other is rejected by external parties.



                              That's your story and you're going to stick to it, despite the evidence provided even by your own sources.
                              From an article in BAR From 1991. My emphasis.

                              https://www.baslibrary.org/bible-review/7/5/11

                              The Samaritan Passover sacrifice is offered each year exactly as Exodus 12 describes it. On the 14th day of the first month of the Samaritan calendar,c the Samaritans bring the sheep selected for the sacrifice to the area of the altar, located about 2,500 feet below the highest peak of Mt. Gerizim. The number of sheep depends on the size of the community. The Bible prescribes “a lamb for each family, a lamb for each household. If a household is too small for a whole lamb, it shall join its closest neighbor in obtaining one; the lamb shall be divided in proportion to the number of people who eat of it” (Exodus 12:3–4). When I observed the ceremony, 21 sheep were sacrificed.

                              All afternoon, ovens, or tannurim (stone-lined pits about 6 feet deep and 4 feet in diameter), are heated so as to be ready for the roasting of the sheep in the evening.

                              Shortly before sunset, the high priest and other community dignitaries arrive, and the prayers begin. At sunset, the sheep are slaughtered around the altar, a rather shallow pit in the ground lined with stones, and then are shorn. Samaritan records indicate that in earlier times the commandment of Exodus 12:7 (“They shall take some of the blood and put it on the two doorposts and the lintel of the houses in which they eat”) was carried out as prescribed, but today, the blood is smeared on the foreheads of children.

                              Next, the internal organs of the sheep are inspected for possible blemishes. If none is found, some of the innards are cleansed and others are burned. The carcasses are then put on spits and salted to draw out the blood. After two hours the lambs are put into the tannurim, which are then sealed with grass and moist earth. At midnight, after roasting for several hours, the sheep are taken out and eaten in the houses of the Samaritans close to the sacrificial area. Unleavened bread and bitter herbs are eaten with them. Everything that is left over is burned: “You shall let none of it remain until the morning; anything that remains until the morning you shall burn” (Exodus 12:10). Unlike the Jews, the Samaritans do not have a seder (the prescribed order of the Passover meal) with a fixed Haggadah (the text containing prayers and stories related to the Exodus).

                              c
                              Footnote: 3

                              The Samaritan calendar is a lunisolar calendar with 354 days. It is divided into 12 months of 29 or 30 days each. The months do not have names, but are designated by ordinal numbers (for instance, the first month, the second month, etc.). In order for the primarily agrarian feasts to be celebrated in the same season each year, an intercalation system is used (in other words, at certain times an additional month is added). The Jewish and Samaritan methods of intercalation differ from each other, so the dates for celebrating Passover do not always coincide.



                              I am not entirely sure how you arrive at the conclusion that all the above takes place place at the beginning of 14th.
                              "It ain't necessarily so
                              The things that you're liable
                              To read in the Bible
                              It ain't necessarily so
                              ."

                              Sportin' Life
                              Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

                                From an article in BAR From 1991. My emphasis.

                                https://www.baslibrary.org/bible-review/7/5/11

                                The Samaritan Passover sacrifice is offered each year exactly as Exodus 12 describes it. On the 14th day of the first month of the Samaritan calendar,c the Samaritans bring the sheep selected for the sacrifice to the area of the altar, located about 2,500 feet below the highest peak of Mt. Gerizim. The number of sheep depends on the size of the community. The Bible prescribes “a lamb for each family, a lamb for each household. If a household is too small for a whole lamb, it shall join its closest neighbor in obtaining one; the lamb shall be divided in proportion to the number of people who eat of it” (Exodus 12:3–4). When I observed the ceremony, 21 sheep were sacrificed.

                                All afternoon, ovens, or tannurim (stone-lined pits about 6 feet deep and 4 feet in diameter), are heated so as to be ready for the roasting of the sheep in the evening.

                                Shortly before sunset, the high priest and other community dignitaries arrive, and the prayers begin. At sunset, the sheep are slaughtered around the altar, a rather shallow pit in the ground lined with stones, and then are shorn. Samaritan records indicate that in earlier times the commandment of Exodus 12:7 (“They shall take some of the blood and put it on the two doorposts and the lintel of the houses in which they eat”) was carried out as prescribed, but today, the blood is smeared on the foreheads of children.

                                Next, the internal organs of the sheep are inspected for possible blemishes. If none is found, some of the innards are cleansed and others are burned. The carcasses are then put on spits and salted to draw out the blood. After two hours the lambs are put into the tannurim, which are then sealed with grass and moist earth. At midnight, after roasting for several hours, the sheep are taken out and eaten in the houses of the Samaritans close to the sacrificial area. Unleavened bread and bitter herbs are eaten with them. Everything that is left over is burned: “You shall let none of it remain until the morning; anything that remains until the morning you shall burn” (Exodus 12:10). Unlike the Jews, the Samaritans do not have a seder (the prescribed order of the Passover meal) with a fixed Haggadah (the text containing prayers and stories related to the Exodus).

                                c
                                Footnote: 3

                                The Samaritan calendar is a lunisolar calendar with 354 days. It is divided into 12 months of 29 or 30 days each. The months do not have names, but are designated by ordinal numbers (for instance, the first month, the second month, etc.). In order for the primarily agrarian feasts to be celebrated in the same season each year, an intercalation system is used (in other words, at certain times an additional month is added). The Jewish and Samaritan methods of intercalation differ from each other, so the dates for celebrating Passover do not always coincide.



                                I am not entirely sure how you arrive at the conclusion that all the above takes place place at the beginning of 14th.
                                How is it that you can be unsure about how I can arrive at the conclusion when I have already posted a copy of the official Samaritan bulletin explicitly stating that the sacrifice is conducted at the start of the 14th? Why would a secondary source be considered superior to the primary source, particularly if the secondary source is indeed in conflict with the primary?

                                How you interpret secondary sources is not at all relevant. Perhaps you should consider whether all the preparations for cooking the sacrifice might be done prior to conducting the sacrifice.
                                1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
                                .
                                ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
                                Scripture before Tradition:
                                but that won't prevent others from
                                taking it upon themselves to deprive you
                                of the right to call yourself Christian.

                                ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

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